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Michael Jackson's "Thriller" - It was Toto Album...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by gener8tr, Feb 7, 2014.

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  1. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Undertaking? So they are not only spoiled but passed away?
     
  2. erniebert

    erniebert Shoe-string audiophile

    Location:
    Toronto area
    I, sure as heck, didn't know it.
     
    JohnnyQuest likes this.
  3. shaboo

    shaboo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bonn, Germany
    Hey, a B- isn't that bad ...
    http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=toto
     
    zebop and Gems-A-Bems like this.
  4. drbryant

    drbryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Someons should tell him that complaining about your media coverage is not the way to get good press. That's pretty basic. It's like complaining about the referees in basketball - not a good strategy if you want the calls. Which brings me back to an earlier point - he's a great guitarist and has a commercially successful band, but needs a decent PR firm to tell him what to say.
     
  5. I figure that about half the people who bought the latest Toto album are members here.
     
    JimC likes this.
  6. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California, USA
    I love Christgau. Christgau shows his obvious "Stones are the measuring stick for all rock 'n roll" bias, however, by claiming that Toto IV isn't, "in the sprit of rock 'n roll" without supporting his criticism. The tone and spirit of Toto IV are obviously in the mold of "Yesterday" and the more exuberant early Beatles flavor. Of course Christgau would take the easy way out and only compare them to the Stones, while disregarding that Toto's unique musicianship is what sets the album apart.

    B- is pretty good for him. He also gave Steel Wheels a B-.
     
  7. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California, USA
    We're talking about it for 29 pages of thread, aren't we?
     
  8. drbryant

    drbryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    'Any press is good press' is often true (Keith Richards is a master), but based on the largely negative reactions over these 29 pages, I'm not sure it works for Toto. I'm not a publicist, so I don't know anything, but I would want to figure out a way to put Toto in the position that Journey was in a few years back when they found that Filipino lead singer on the internet - they were on Oprah and Ellen, Good Morning America and major sporting events, playing those old hits and reminding aging fans why they loved the music in the first place. Now, they are nearly an arena act again in the US. Like Toto, Journey has been a doormat for critics since their heyday - but people (the "average Joe Blow" in your words) love them. Some kind of campaign that would accomplish something similar, rather than 29 pages of negative comments on an online audiophile Forum.
     
    flako likes this.
  9. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California, USA
    The positive and thoughtful comments are the ones that count toward building new fans from potential fans who appreciate good music. I would expect any serious fan of music that human beings perform to read an obviously uninformed, cheap shot, or troll comment and treat it with the same respect that the poster has given Toto. Serious music fans will be able to separate the wheat from the chaff. This isn't a promo campaign for Toto. Neither is it a music forum of the clueless.
     
  10. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    It's because they aren't. They only dominate two tunes. Luke says as much in the interview in the OP. That they allegedly dominate Thriller is hyperbole

    Ed
     
  11. S. P. Honeybunch

    S. P. Honeybunch Presidente de Kokomo

    Location:
    California, USA
    Steve Lukather
    "The Girl Is Mine": electric guitar
    "Beat It": electric bass guitar, electric guitar
    "Human Nature": electric guitar

    David Paich
    "Baby Be Mine": keyboards, synthesizers
    "The Girl Is Mine": piano
    "Human Nature": keyboards, synthesizers
    "The Lady In My Life": keyboards, synthesizers

    Jeff Porcaro
    "The Girl Is Mine": drums
    "Beat It": drums
    "Human Nature": drums
    "The Lady In My Life": drums

    Steve Porcaro
    "Beat It": synthesizers
    "Human Nature": synthesizers
    "The Lady In My Life": synthesizers

    In addition, David Paich arranged "The Girl Is Mine" and Steve Lukather, Paich, and Steve Porcaro arranged "Human Nature".
     
  12. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Now, the hyperbole-free list:

    Steve Lukather
    plays on "The Girl is Mine"
    plays on "Beat It"
    plays on and came up with the guitar part (per an interview on this subject) for "Human Nature"

    David Paich
    plays on "Baby Be Mine". Rod Temperton arranged it.
    plays on and co-arranges the rhythm parts on "The Girl is Mine".
    plays on and co-arranges "Human Nature"
    plays on "The Lady in My Life". Rod Temperton arranged it.

    Jeff Porcaro
    plays on "Beat It" and "The Lady in My Life". Michael arranged "Beat It" and Rod Temperton arranged "The Lady in My Life". Of course, he also plays on "Human Nature".

    Steve Porcaro
    programs synths and plays them for "Beat It" and "The Lady in My Life". Michael arranged "Beat It" and Rod Temperton arranged "The Lady in My Life". He, of course, co-wrote, co-arranges, and plays on "Human Nature".

    For the ninetieth time, David Paich, Jeff Porcaro, and Steve Lukather were largely session musicians for "Thriller". They did not dominate the album. They dominate two tunes: "The Girl is Mine" and "Human Nature".

    Even on "The Girl is Mine", Quincy and Paich did the rhythm arrangement. David Foster is responsible for the synth arrangement and Quincy and Michael did the vocal arrangements. That's hardly domination either.

    SO...

    In reality, Toto dominates exactly one song on "Thriller". Session playing isn't domination. The members of Toto have been doing that for years. Can we dispense with the hyperbole now please?

    Ed
     
    Dr. Mudd, JohnnyQuest, Thom and 3 others like this.
  13. Gems-A-Bems

    Gems-A-Bems Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Duke City
    Perhaps he felt it was self-evident. The same way you claimed the Stones are the basis for his comparison without your offering any supporting evidence.
     
  14. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Ah! Forgot it. That'll teach me to try to be coherent at that hour. LOL!

    "Georgy Porgy" is always one I've liked. Again, overplaying and over-covering through the years have dulled its impact with me but I still like it. If it comes on, I'll listen to it. Interesting that it became a decent R&B hit for them.

    Ed
     
    Thom likes this.
  15. soundboy

    soundboy Senior Member

    "Without Your Love" is actually another very good song from "Fahrenheit", with Luke on lead vocal. Excellent solo and an outro that I always crank up to hear as it fades out.

     
    Nostaljack and zebop like this.
  16. soundboy

    soundboy Senior Member

    You should add "Jake To The Bone" (instrumental from "Kingdom of Desire") to your playlist.

     
  17. zebop

    zebop Well Known Stranger


    I like that a lot. I've never seen that video, very cool.
     
  18. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Yeah, ok.

    Ed
     
  19. TonyACT

    TonyACT Boxed-in!

    He gets to tour with my hero's All-Starr band and sing Rosanna and Africa over and over - what more could he want? ;)
     
  20. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    To not have to sing "Rosanna" and "Africa" over and over? :shh:
     
    JayB, Red and TonyACT like this.
  21. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    That's a nice groove! Luke's vocal is especially good on it. He could be a very convincing R&B singer. I like this. Thanks for the video!

    Ed
     
    zebop likes this.
  22. flako

    flako Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City, USA
    True, but like you acknowledge, this applies to any band. I'm guessing if we are mistaken, the error is of the same magnitude for every artist/band.
     
  23. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Could be. I admit I'm not sure why it seems to be so tough to come up with accurate sales totals worldwide...
     
  24. Wombat Reynolds

    Wombat Reynolds Jimmy Page stole all my best riffs.

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA, USA
    OK. A few people care, or cared, about the musicians that played on an album. Its not surprising to find people who do care, on an audiophile forum. I still firmly believe that the vast majority of people, do not care.

    And I also believe that "not caring" is worse now, than ever. In the 70s, when you had a big stadium show, you were almost guaranteed that at least one super virtuoso was going to be playing, and generally, the overall level of musicianship in many of the stadium level players and bands was outstanding. Guitar heros were large and in charge and some were household names, Jimmy Page for example.

    Not so today, those days are over. People will know John Mayer and Prince... because they sing and are band leaders and front-men. Joe Bonamassa, nope. In the 70s you could ask just about any teenager to list maybe 10 instrumentalists in pop or rock and probably get at least ten. From what I've seen of music fans today, nope, you couldnt.

    Here, yes. Everywhere else? Dont think so.

    I could be wrong. I often am.
     
  25. flako

    flako Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City, USA
    You're likely right on this, though.
     
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