Michell Gyro Owners

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by ThorensSme, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Lately I've been spinning records on my Gyro SE without a clamp, and I am really liking it. The sound has a 'freer' less 'tight' quality. Yes you lose a little bit of 'focus' that the clamp brings. Has anyone else out there tried this as well? It all started because I got tired of taking the felt washer on and off for half my records are too thick to use it. And I thought, why not try no clamp as well...
     
    dkarpi likes this.
  2. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    It sounds nice that you've great results spinning records on your Gyro SE without the clamp. I prefer to spin records with the clamp on my Gyro SE as it sounds better to these ears. Do you use the standard Michell clamp or the screw down Orbe clamp?
     
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  3. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Yes, using the standard Michell clamp. I’m guessing the orbe style screw clamp is much nicer. My friends SME 15 has an amazing screw down style clamp.
     
    GyroSE likes this.
  4. blakep

    blakep Forum Resident

    I prefer using the clamp definitely. Two excellent, very low cost reversible tweaks are:

    1) replacing the felt washer with an O-ring (discussed and recommended by 33na3rd in the following thread:

    Tell me about your Gyrodec turntable.

    Getting the right sized O-ring will give you complete flexibility-it will work with thin records as well as 200 gram and arguably sounds a bit better than the felt washer.

    and

    2) damping the underside of the Michell clamp-this is based on a suggestion from Werner Ogiers from the Angelfire-Michell setup webpage. I used some 3M automotive damping sheets that I had sitting around for other audio related projects and it worked out very well.

    Dynamat, neoprene sheet, sorbothane, would all probably work and might possibly sound a bit different but there is no doubt in my mind that the damping that I applied improved sound quality.

    About $5-$10 as opposed to $250 U.S. for the Orbe clamp in North America.

    It is important not to over tighten with the Michell clamp. I would suspect that some users apply too much pressure and over tighten with it.
     
  5. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Not a Gyro user but a Rega user, and not using a clamp is one of the liberating things about these desks. I have used many other makes and models of decks with and without clamps or weights. I generally dislike using anything on top of an LP. It depends on the mat used and the turntable design as to whether it might sound better with or without. Unless a record is warped, the sonic difference should be subtle. On tables with mats designed to decouple, I find a weight or clamp coupling the LP to the platter to deaden the sound a bit. It's not night and day different, but it is audible in a revealing system. As the OP discovered though, it's certainly easier not to bother with it, and in many cases it can sound better also.
    -Bill
     
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  6. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    I think the Orbe clamp should be substantively better at its job, since it screws onto the spindle, really forcing the record down on those outer edges. Thanks for the tips, may try them some day.
     
  7. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Its quite interesting, its clearly different with and without the clamp. I could easily see how some might prefer the sound with clamp, it does seem to have more 'focus' and perhaps slightly lower noise floor? But who knows, in a few weeks I might try it again and rethink my position. However right now, I am hearing more vibrancy and life in the sound - a little less hifi, and more life like.
     
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  8. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Interesting regarding that you're experiencing your Gyro SE as more hifi and less life like while using the clamp. To these ears the Michell decks in general are less hifi and more life like soundwise with or without the clamp but I prefer to use the clamp as it "tightens" the sound in general. Well sound perception is clearly subjective and it's no exception in this case... :)
     
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  9. Neiro

    Neiro Well-Known Member

    Location:
    UK
    Fully agree with your findings. I have always found using a clamp, well, clamps the sound for want of a phrase. I definitely find no clamp equals life and vibrancy. Even when I have owned a TT with a clamp I have not used it. Of course system synergy is a big contributor as well.
     
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  10. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    I wouldn’t say the Gyro emphasizes the ‘hifi’ sound at all, either with or without the clamp for sure. It’s a beautiful sounding deck both ways, I’ve just noticed the sound is different, and in this case for me, even closer to ‘life-like’ not using the clamp!

    I will revisit this after a few weeks of listening without. And post a follow up impression. Ultimately the sound of the deck regardless is awesome!
     
    GyroSE likes this.
  11. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    The felt washer should not be used on the Gyro. Having owned an earlier Gyro for 22 years I'm sure it sounded better with the clamp.
     
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  12. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    I’ve always used and still use the felt washer, the only times I don’t use it is when I play the thicker 180 and/or 200 g records.
     
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  13. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    I would go back and forth with the felt washer. Be that as it may, Michell provides it, so I presume they believe one might benefit from using it. As for your experience with the clamp, I believe most people probably prefer it with the clamp as well. It does have a little more focus, but it does 'dampen' (deaden) the sound in subtle ways that I tend to prefer it without. I'm sure the Orbe style screw down clamp works better, and probably eliminates most of what I did not like about the standard clamp.

    Now using a stillpoints LPI. It is really amazing. But this isn't a clamp, so different category of product.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  14. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    I found the felt washer to be totally unusable with heavy weight records. LP's would float above the platter.
     
  15. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    The felt washer is only used for dished records when the label touches the platter first and the outer record floats in the air. You then put the washer on the spindle, then the record and with the clamp it will repucker the record forcing it down flat.

    Otherwise the washer is never used and not needed.
     
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  16. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle

    I figured that out mostly by trial and error. Michell should update their instructions (not just for the clamp, but for table assembly)! Not really an issue for me though anymore, I don't use the washer or clamp.
     
  17. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    That's why these clamps are called "Reflex" clamps, used correctly in conjunction with a washer, you can reflex the record the other direction.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  18. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Well I wouldn't not use the clamp as it couples the record to the platter turning all your records into around 15 lbs and controlling resonance.
     
  19. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    Like I mentioned in previous posts, A) I prefer the sound without compared to with, when it comes to the standard Michell clamp. B) I use a a Stillpoints LP1 now.
     
    MGW likes this.
  20. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    That's fine, what people like and hear is subjective and psychoacoustics.

    But adding a pound and a half onto the bearing and to the load the motor and belt needs to move would not be the direction I would go.

    Perhaps the incorrect use of the clamp in the first place set your mind to hearing something that really isn't there when used correctly. A weight will not reflex a dished record so you'll still have that issue once in a while, but have the clamp to fall back on.
     
    MGW likes this.
  21. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    The Orbe platter adds more weight than that.

    Perhaps you have no idea whether or not I used the clamp correctly or incorrectly, so I'll correct you and let you know that I do indeed know how to use it, and still prefer it without.
     
  22. GyroSE

    GyroSE Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    The felt washer works in basically the same way as the plastic washer on the Orbe so yes I would say that it shall be used except when having thicker/heavier records on the platter. I’ve the Orbe SE and the Gyro SE side by side and I can clearly see that the felt washer has the same effect as the plastic equivalent which is standard on the Orbe. One should have in mind that the main reason to use clamps on the Orbe as well as the Gyro is to couple records to the platter and nothing else- the ability to flatten warped records comes as a bonus.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  23. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    You have the Universal version. Washer is for non Michell TTs. They did sell a Michell version without the washer but maybe it's now standardised. It's not meant to raise the record like the centre boss on The Orbe. Actually the raise on that is more subtle and it is curved. The Orbe system actually does flatten warps and dishes by raising centre slightly and screwing the record centre down in a slight bell shape. Most records these days appear to have a slight bell warp at least.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  24. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula

    All these comments^^^
    Confirms your not and where not using the clamp correctly with the washer, even @Classicrock was trying to point that out prior to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  25. ThorensSme

    ThorensSme Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle
    I have the version shipped with my gyro se. the Orbe clamp is a better design, and most gyro users seem
    to upgrade to it eventually.
     
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