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Micro scratches with Sleeve city diskkeeper

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 12" 45rpm, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    It appears Elusive Disc has two types of these sleeves but no real way to know exactly what they are just looking online.

    Japanese 12" Vinyl Inner Sleeves (100 Pack)

    12" Vinyl Inner Sleeves (100 Pack)

    This is a great hobby with some weird quirks.

    As far as the fogging, are we referring to the pressing marks that were notoriously on vinyl produced by RTI in the early and mid 2000s? I used to see this on quite a few albums. I can't remember the sleeve they came in but people said they were pressing marks left by the release compound IIRC. It never affected the SQ.
     
  2. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    No, it is a well known (at this last point in time) effect of poly plastic reacting to certain types of vinyl records. over a period of years. The glossy look of an LP is rendered dull and fogged, with no ability to clean this fog off. The record is ruined.

    BTW, RTI never used a mold release compound, so said the manager when I visited. Been there twice.
     
    mikemoon likes this.
  3. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    This is the bigger issue for many of us. Micro-abrasions are not acceptable. But a strange mark(s),we are calling it a fog or actually a PVC reaction with vinyl major, as it mainly appears over years..., and is not seen right away.
     
  4. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Thanks for the information. BTW, how would one know the right poly sleeve that is safe and which is not in regards to fogging? Was this a rare occurrence or was it widespread?

    When you say ruined do you mean sound wise or aesthetically?

    I had never heard of it until this thread. Just trying to take notes.

    Also, wasn't sure about the whole mold compound thing since I don't know much about the inside process of a pressing plant. Cool that you got to take a tour.

    Did you ask them what they thought about he plastic sleeves they use?
     
  5. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    specifically: PVC
    the plasticizer in PVC is released as gas and it reacts with the vinyl producing the 'fogging'
    polyethylene (including HDPE) does not cause this.
     
    nomad709 likes this.
  6. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Then what the hell is that stuff inside some paper sleeves that causes this, and how can you tell us all what to avoid? I have found most all sleeves, except for the kind with that rice paper I keep mentioning to cause the fog. What is HDPE again, sorry I'm slow.

    And the other main problem is that the reaction (fogging) is not certain even with the PVC, it takes the wrong (or should we say right) vinyl compound to cause the reaction. So your first sentence makes an effort to be specific, yet is not always the case. The gas does not always react with the vinyl records. It's the wrong combo we dread.
     
  7. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    the sleeves you linked to are not rice paper! they're polyethylene. HDPE is a specific type of polyethylene.
    to avoid fogging all you have to do is NOT USE PVC for either the inner liner or outer bag.
    I don't really have an opinion on microabrasions- I've never run into them, but I've always used the thin sleeves that you like, too . . . . . .
     
    mikemoon and nomad709 like this.
  8. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    lol ok sure . . . but the point is pvc is the material to avoid.
     
  9. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The notorious Sleeve City Ultimate Audiophile Sleeve is also HDPE polyethylene. It seems "rice paper" is a bit of an ambiguous term as they use it in this description as well. So many fans of this sleeve, yet this thread has me questioning them. I appreciate your clarification, it seems you have some good background knowledge here.

    diskeeper ultimate audiophile inner sleeve
     
  10. nomad709

    nomad709 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    USA
    HDPE poly is not the issue, the issue is the thickness and from my experience 2 mil and up could cause micro abrasions. You can tell by the feel, if it's very thin and soft(crumbles easy) it's probably around 1 mil. My diskeeper audiophile inner sleeves are about 2 mil and I have a feeling the ultimate ones are too. I can tell by the feel they're definitely more rigid than the 1 mil round bottom sleeves I have.

    The rice paper diskeeper refers to is the white sheet sandwiched in between layers of clear HDPE poly otherwise the sleeves would be transparent. The sandwiched rice paper is what makes these sleeves very rigid and I assume that's why they're very popular.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  11. Vinyl Archaeologist

    Vinyl Archaeologist Forum Resident

    The ultimate sleeves are easy to hold open so the playing surface makes minimal contact. Combined with the relatively scratch free surface they are pretty kind to the records.
     
  12. Preppyguy

    Preppyguy Member

    Location:
    O’Fallon, IL USA
     
  13. Preppyguy

    Preppyguy Member

    Location:
    O’Fallon, IL USA
    Curious, what do you think your resale value would be?
     
  14. Preppyguy

    Preppyguy Member

    Location:
    O’Fallon, IL USA
     
  15. Preppyguy

    Preppyguy Member

    Location:
    O’Fallon, IL USA
    I purchased a Anti-Skate Calibration Disc a few months ago. One side is smooth, and the other has grooves. I now use it for testing sleeves. So far pretty effective, and it saves me money on having to replace future discs.

    So far, knock on vinyl, I have chosen a generic brand poly/ Kraft paper sleeve. I find it easier to cup the sleeve when inserting and removing the records. Should the poly insert touch the record, it is silent. And no markings on the LP are found. No scratchy sounds as I experienced with SleeveCity’s product.
     
  16. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I hate the paper/poly sleeves. Too much of a PITA to handle.

    I keep my albums clean, have no problem with the MOFI sleeves and micro scratches.
     
    matrix-6 and CBackley like this.
  17. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    On the car? I gave the buckets away to the guy who does a regular hand wash on my car.
     
  18. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    I use paper / poly sleeves in combination with these spined sleeves. They’re not much good on their own.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. GeraldB

    GeraldB Forum Resident

    "Spined sleeves"? Are these blank jackets? Do they fit inside a regular jacket, or do you keep your records separate from the jackets? (Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding.)
     
  20. GeraldB

    GeraldB Forum Resident

    Paper/poly are a pain to handle? How so? I find them a lot less fussy than the MoFi-style.
     
  21. mikemoon

    mikemoon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I tend to agree but this is why I always preferred the Sleeve City UA Sleeve, it was the best of both worlds.
     
  22. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The albums don't slide in and out as smoothly. And if you're storing the vinyl in the jacket, the Mofi slides in and out of the jacket more smoothly, as well.
     
  23. Hardcore

    Hardcore Quartz Controlled

    Location:
    UK
    Yes, they’re just like a regular album jacket, except with a die cut hole to see the label.

    A lot of my music didn’t originally come with jackets, some just came in paper inners so over the years I’ve tried to find the best way to look after them.

    Here’s one..

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
  24. GeraldB

    GeraldB Forum Resident

    Okay. Yes, I have a bunch of those, too. I mostly use them to break out box set tjat don't have individual sleeves, or where the jacket is in a bit of a fragile state.

    I've just been looking for something to go around the MA sleeves, along the lines of the MoFi inserts, which keep the flimsier inners from folding or crumpling, so I just wanted to check. Cheers!
     
    Hardcore likes this.
  25. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    So I thought I was permanently done with Sleeve City, until dumb luck intervened.

    As some folks may recall, I used Sleeve City 2.0 inners and 1.5 round bottom inners for years, until quality went to the toilet and I started getting defective batches. After three defective batches, I switched over to MOFI or whatever the local store was carrying, usually some type of poly-lined inner.

    Recently I placed an order with a store I've dealt with many times before. Not an audiophile shop, but a record store. I was getting low on my package of MOFI inners so I figured I would order a small quantity (e.g. 5 or 6) of whatever the store was carrying, which are usually the poly-lined type with paper on the outside.

    When I received the package, instead of what I was expecting, I got some Diskeeper Ultimate Audiophile inners, the thick ones that are like MOFI but with paper on the front and back and the label windows. I guess time will tell if these are a problem. I'm not going to use them on expensive albums.
     

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