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Micro scratches with Sleeve city diskkeeper

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 12" 45rpm, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    I had no problem with them either.
    If I look at the sleeve and see something embedded in the plastic, I'll put it aside and use another.
     
    johnny q likes this.
  2. AaronW

    AaronW Formerly Blackie

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    So you've come across issues too or am I misreading your post?
     
  3. AaronW

    AaronW Formerly Blackie

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I'm looking for a good option! I love the Goldring Exstatic inner sleeves from the UK but once you add shipping to the US, they're cost prohibitive. The Bags Unlimited poly lined paper sleeves never caused any issue with the records themselves but the firm, sharp edges aren't friendly to fragile '50s-'60s US record sleeves, which take up a fair amount of my shelf space. The Nagaoka inner sleeves are friendly to records but are too flimsy and hard to get in the jacket without wrinkling. I'm beginning to feel a bit Goldilocks in my search...
     
    hvbias likes this.
  4. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    Out of 100 sleeves, I saw only 3-5 that were questionable. No issues
     
  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    I posted about this several months ago. It's a known issue and only started happening on the last few batches I received from Sleeve City. I think the last 3 batches I received all had raised bubbles inside that were not there when I first started buying these, and I've bought probably close to 1,000 of them by now. Don't think I'll be buying any more going forward because Sleeve City can't seem to fix issues with their supplier. Even the replacement batch they sent me was screwed up.
     
    Lucca90 and ParloFax like this.
  6. Turntable

    Turntable Senior Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Does not surprise me, they ate very similar to the audiophool mofi sleeves.

    The el cheapo u shaped inners, leave nothing. Work perfectly.
     
  7. melstapler

    melstapler Reissue Activist

    Wish someone would invent sleeves made out of a 100% cotton material.
     
  8. Turntable

    Turntable Senior Member

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Why?

    I could see it leaving material residue.
     
    melstapler likes this.
  9. AaronW

    AaronW Formerly Blackie

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I wish someone would make LP sleeves out of Tyvek (material Netflix uses for DVD sleeves). I looked into getting some made but unless there were massive quantities, they ended up around $2-$3 per inner.
     
    Cassius and groovelocked like this.
  10. peeda

    peeda New Member

    Location:
    Rhode Island
    I'm new to this forum, and I joined to share my experiences about this issue. I bought a new 180 gram album. I cleaned the album and replaced the original sleeve with a Sleeve City Round Bottom sleeve. The first time I removed the album from the new sleeve, the sleeve adhered to the album very closely (seemingly due to static). After removing the album only twice to play it, I noticed numerous hairline scratches all over both sides of the album. (I'd include a photo, but I currently don't know how to upload one to this forum. Sorry!)

    I contacted the manufacture, and I had a very cooperative conversation with him. I returned the sleeves so he could check them out. I was curious how this could happen, so I also tried to replicate the results using a Mobile Fidelity Original Master Sleeve. I put a couple albums (new and old) in each brand of sleeve, and I applied a little pressure with my fingers as I removed the album. Both sleeves scratched the album, whereas sleeves made from paper and card stock did not cause scratches.

    I brought the album to a local used record dealer for his opinion. This was all news to him. He hadn't heard of any problems with these types of sleeves. Actually, he couldn't see any scratches. To him, it looked mint. That's when I realized the scratches only show up under certain types of light. I don't know exactly which bulbs best reveal the scratches. However, sunlight and the soft bulbs common in many homes don't seem to show the scratches. As it happens, the bulb over my kitchen table is clear, and these scratches show under the light.

    The scratches are definitely there. I suppose I'd call them micro-scratches. They don't appear to affect sound quality. However, I know they were caused by HDPE sleeves. I just bought a used 180 gram album whose sleeve was make from card stock, and it's free of these scratches.

    My hunch is that HDPE sleeves generally cause these scratches, but people don't notice due variances in lighting in homes and stores. I have albums that are over 30 years old and stored in paper sleeves, and they don't have the scratch patterns that I observed after immediate use of HDPE sleeves. Even the MoFi master sleeves caused scratches, although to a much lesser degree (mostly around the album's outer ring.)

    Perhaps I'll use HDPE sleeves with used records that need replacement sleeves, but I'll never use them with new vinyl. Actually, I might just stick with paper . . . or card stock if I can find it.
     
    CBackley and AaronW like this.
  11. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Ive been mentioning this issue for quite some time now with all of this sleeves like Sleeve City, MFSL and worst of all...QRP sleeves. Apparently it's all my imagination according to the fan boys....
     
  12. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    They do the same, albeit to a lesser degree....
     
    AaronW likes this.
  13. Jacob29

    Jacob29 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    My guess is particulates being transferred into the sleeve every time you use the album. I've never had any problems with them
     
  14. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Incorrect. Its abrasion caused by the action of the sleeve rubbing against the record.
     
    Mr.Sneis and AaronW like this.
  15. Barnabas Collins

    Barnabas Collins Senior Member

    Location:
    NH
    It must be my imagination as well. I just started noticing the above referenced issues with Sleeve City. I ditched the MFSLs after the problems with those. Now I don't know what to do.
     
    AaronW and richbdd01 like this.
  16. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I use generic poly sleeves. Since using them, I have done numerous tests and they don't leave hairline traces like these 'audiophile' sleeves. If i buy a Mofi or QRP pressing now, I transfer these immediately. My Doors Analogue Productions records only took about 3 removals for them to leave numerous marks.

    At least I don't make these same mistakes any more. So a handful of issues might save me a nightmare further down the line...
     
    ShallowMemory likes this.
  17. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Dedicated Follower of Hi-Fi

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    I'm uncomfortably skeptical about the basic anecdotal claim being made in this discussion — that Sleeve City inners expressly designed and sold to protect vinyl have abrasive flaws that damage vinyl. I don't what would constitute solid incriminating evidence, but I feel like I haven't seen it here yet, and factors like before-and-after documentation, and dust, particulates, and cleaning (or no-cleaning) protocols need to be accounted for.

    That's apart from questioning the semi-neurotic nature of worrying about something wholly superficial that doesn't seem to affect sound quality.
     
    H8SLKC, Matt Starr and Ryan_Pretzel like this.
  18. I was curious about this as well... I have approximately 1000 LPs housed in these inners and I just inspected 5 of them or so. Under sunlight and bright incandescent lighting - some had a few hairlines, but I can't guarantee that they didn't have these same hairlines right out of the package brand new. Maybe I'll be more cautious when I inspect before cleaning now.

    Also a few hairlines don't bug me as long as sound quality is not adversely altered.

    Appreciate the OP for pointing this out though, certainly a concern if this is caused by the sleeves...
     
    recstar24 likes this.
  19. Overall I love the Sleeve City product, inners and outers!
     
  20. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    I posted this before on another thread, but I did some testing (note i use the sleevecity sleeves often myself):

    I have actually tested and basically any type of sleeve will make some kind of marks on a record if you rub it back and forth.with say the weight of the record pressing on your hand. Actually some of the ones that did this the least were original sleeves on some UK records that have kind of a waxed inside (not just plain paper, maybe the ones someone referred to as "onion skin" - but not like the poly-lined paper ones either). So nothing is gonna be perfect. my test results:

    -plain white paper - can make the worst scuffs, thicker marks
    -mofi/diskeeper/etc type - make thin hairlines, not as bad as paper, but still visible. My guess is the plastic material is a bit abrasive. It's might be worth bringing this up with the various manufacturers to see if they can improve it
    -paper sleeves from UK LPs with a kind of waxed inside - lighter than plain paper or the mofi/diskeepers
    -plain poly/polylined paper - definitely less scuffing/hairlines than all the other sleeves, at least the ones I had on hand (original to some LPs).

    However, even with the least scuff prone options there is a drawback. I have seen issues where LPs stored in polylined sleeves or the UK paper type above, get some kind of marks on them from long term storage. For example, I recently opened a sealed copy of a cat power record that had never been opened. It was an RTI pressing, but came in poly lined sleeves. at the areas where the poly liner is i guess glued to the paper, it had made a clear hazy discoloration on the vinyl (so just at a couple places on the edge, but kind of like LPs that have been left in those thick PVC sleeves can get, from the plasticizer.) And with other paper types, I have seen LPs stored in them for a long time get that slight blotchy discoloration, I'm sure most collectors are familiar with it. These things, like the hairlines generally, are fortunately not usually audible (the cat power LP played perfectly). So maybe there is no perfect sleeve (just like there is no actually perfect record?) Just be careful inserting and removing them and you will probably be fine.
     
  21. Great post with some helpful info. I was thinking the same thing about "perfect"... hard to define with all the variables here.
     
  22. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Only semi-neurotic? You're being generous!


     
  23. Bubbamike

    Bubbamike Forum Resident

  24. Jacob29

    Jacob29 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City
    Of course but this is exacerbated by particulates like sand or metal shavings in a bearing
     
  25. Greg Carrier

    Greg Carrier Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa City
    Stupid question: if there's no audible effect, why would I care?
     
    H8SLKC likes this.

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