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Micro scratches with Sleeve city diskkeeper

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by 12" 45rpm, Mar 2, 2017.

  1. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    I use Diskeeper 2.0 sleeves and the rounded bottom sleeves and they have no abrasive effect at all from what I can see.
     
  2. dkmonroe

    dkmonroe A completely self-taught idiot

    Location:
    Atlanta
    If they can leave visible scratches on an LP, after a few years of removing and re-inserting the LP they could become audible. What's not audible now could be serious damage later.
     
  3. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    Perhaps the way some people remove a record out of the sleeve makes them more prone to these types of micro abrasions. I literally reach in and put my fingers under the label area, while the edge of the record is resting against the base of my thumb...then pull the sleeve away with the other hand. But the sleeve is so bowed open by my hand being inside it...it barely touches the record sliding in or out. Now, if someone was grabbing with two fingers by the record edge and just pulling/sliding the record out...I could see how more scuffing and abrasions could occur.
     
    stenway, Machiventa, kronning and 6 others like this.
  4. AaronW

    AaronW Formerly Blackie

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I cleaned this record, it had a perfect shiny surface, put in a Sleeve City Ultimate Inner, immediately removed it to find these marks. Tried again with a mint $1 record and confirmed the issue. Rub your hand over the surface of the inners and you can feel the rough spots/imbedded particles. These are completely absent on the old VRP inners they were modeled after or the round bottom Japanese inners.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. AaronW

    AaronW Formerly Blackie

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Better question, why would you want to replace your inner sleeves with ones that cause damage, audible or not?
     
    H8SLKC likes this.
  6. Mr.Sneis

    Mr.Sneis Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Ocd record talk, I like.

    When a record is exposed to air it picks up some dust particles which we may or may not be able to see. When it is then reinserted into the sleeve it's just asking for scuffs like this if the sleeve is contacting the surface of the record.

    Common sense to me, but I sleeve and unsleeve bowing out the sides of the sleeve as much as possible to minimize contact on the record surface.

    It doesn't matter which sleeve, they are all susceptible to this. Super thick or wide pressed records that fit too tight in the sleeves exacerbate these issues as you simply can't bow out the sides of the sleeves. Unfortunately mofi sleeves are the worst at this ime, records fit too tight.

    Take any of your records in your hand and go outside on direct sun and you'll be shocked what you see. Even brand new out of the shrink.
     
  7. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I'm playing records decades old that have been stored in everything from plastic inners, to rice paper inners, to regular paper inners, etc. Plenty of these records look less than great, but most of them play very well. If the inners were such a big deal, how could that be? Of particular note relative to Sleeve City and MoFi, I've got dozens of both and they too seem excellent. At my age, as long as my records play until my hearing gives out in 30 years or so, I couldn't care less about these things. If records from the 50s and 60s still sound good now, I believe there is little to worry about here.
     
  8. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    This is what I have been using lately or for say the last several hundred 're-sleeves.' They feel like a textured soft cloth, are porous and I switched to them to avoid the lint I find left on records from some of the other fancy aftermarket sleeves.
    I don't think these will scratch if that's the complaint.
    They are a little bit of a challenge to handle, simply b/c they are totally limp, no stiffeners, unlike the one from Sleeve City with the stiffener on both sides of the bag.
    I don't re-jacket my records, so that may be a factor for some of you; I slide the record/inner sleeve into a sandwich between a poly covered jacket and a larger outer poly bag.
    Sometimes, I will use those generic white cardboard jackets as part of the packet I create (jacket packet?) and slide the sleeved record next to that. I'm trying to minimize friction in removing and reinserting the record, and in the process, minimizing wear and tear on both the original jacket and record itself. So, these soft MA inners may be more of a pain to get in and out of an original record jacket if that's your thing, maybe not.
    No negatives yet. Been using them for more than a year.
     
    Bubbamike and AaronW like this.
  9. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    I've stumbled upon those before and while expensive, I might be curious aka dumb enough to try them. They look nice though!
     
  10. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Agree with everything you said here. I think the hazing may depend on the formulation used for the plastic. Some cause hazing, others don't. I do find the generic polys to be generally safest though, especially given how quick these other sleeves cause hairlines.
     
  11. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    If its marketed, as the MFSL and QRP sleeves are, as anti-scratching....why would you even worry about how you remove it? It doesn't matter how I remove the records out of the generic poly sleeves, they simply don't scratch. These audiophile sleeves are a 'premium' product and they make a false claim.
     
    pressureworld likes this.
  12. AaronW

    AaronW Formerly Blackie

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Was the record Jukebox? I've read that that type of discoloration is caused by the record being sleeved before it's given adequate time to cool down, causing a reaction to the glue that holds the poly-lining to the paper. Fortunately, at least in my experience, it's inaudible.
     
  13. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    Because that how I've always done it and I don't really care about their marketing. To me, it comes down to physics. It's caused by friction. The more friction, the more likely the record will be scuffed. The less contact....the less friction. So, if you align your record cover and inner sleeve openings so that you can just grab the edge of the record and pull, that will probably cause more friction. Some materials will obviously cause more friction than others, but why would I go through the process of finding out which ones, when I've already had a method that alleviates the problem for close to 50 years now? I just haven't had this problem with these sleeves. I've felt around inside them as Aaron (Blackie) suggested, and it's as smooth as silk. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I've been using them for years, and ultimately re-sleeved everything...somewhere between 2500-3000 records.
     
  14. sublemon

    sublemon Forum Resident

    could be jukebox. the discoloration is exactly on the sleeve seam. I would think it's a plasticizer in the glue or something. It's true that warm vinyl would probably react more/faster.
     
  15. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    I have a considerable number of the old VRP sleeves- both the original brown and the later blue lettered ones. I don't have a "stash" as such; i had, back in the day, re-sleeved many records with them, and now, as I pull those records out here and there, will sometimes re-clean the record using my newer, "more better" cleaning methods and re-sleeve in whatever my current fav inner is. But, I've kept the VRPs. I can see another audiophile frontier:
    NOS RECORD SLEEVES

    I don't discount the negatives various people report with various sleeves. Just thought I'd add a lighter note to the proceedings (while thinking about whether to try and acquire some of these, unused--i.e. NIB, not "pulls"). :)

    FWIW, there are times when I'll pull something like this out that I haven't played in a long while and don't mess with it at all- no fresh cleaning or re-sleeving. Just fire it up-- rare that one of those records has any problem, which tells me my old record cleaning methods using a VPI 16.5 weren't so bad and that these records have held up fine after what?- two or three decades --since last cleaned and re-sleeved. (Don't remember when those sleeves first came out, but it was quite a while ago).
     
    recstar24 likes this.
  16. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    I’ve been using these Sleeve City inner sleeves since I first got into record collecting about 2 1/2 years ago. Tonight I noticed some hairline scratches for the first time. Not audible. But still annoying.
     
  17. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    You will notice more over time, the more the record is removed from the sleeve each play. My advice is to be proactive and do something before your records are covered in these hairline scratches.
     
  18. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    Any recommendations for alternative sleeves? Especially ones that are on the cheaper side of things...
     
  19. loudinny

    loudinny Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    I’ve been using these and the original versions going back to the 70’s and I’m about as fussy as they come when it comes to maintaining my vinyl collection. Seriously I still have mint copies of stuff I owned for over 45 years since I was 11 or 12. I can tell you I’ve noticed zero issues now or in the past using these sleeves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  20. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London

    Not sure if the link will work, but I use these. They have never used so much as a tiny mark on my vinyl. Whenever I get a QRP, Mofi or anything else like printed sleeves...I transfer it across immediately. I no longer get any issues.

    50 12" POLYLINED WHITE PAPER RECORD SLEEVES + FREE DEL | eBay
     
    mikemoon and CBackley like this.
  21. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Everyone’s idea of EX or Mint is different I guess. A discogs seller sent me a record with an EX sleeve, and it was unglued at the seam so there you go...
     
  22. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    I am using for a while "Invest in Vinyl" rice paper sleeves, and I cannot discover any difference from MoFi inners, but they are priced 50+50 (with 50 3ml PE outers) almost the same as just 50 MoFi inners. 40 cents for full "redress" of used record.
    I suspect all those rice paper 3ply inners are made in the same place, just different labels.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  23. richbdd01

    richbdd01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    If you want to see how bad some of these sleeves are, just look at some of the old Classic Records reissues when they were using the earlier sleeves. I bought a couple of them and they are literally covered in micro scratches.

    You compare with their latter reissues with the poly lined paper sleeve and they are clean and mark free.

    It’s these ‘audiophile’ marketed sleeves like those made by MFSL, QRP and sleeve city that I really avoid.
     
    mikemoon likes this.
  24. loudinny

    loudinny Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast
    That happens with novice resellers making a quick buck.

    Mint is mint I’ve been into vinyl and hifi as hobby for almost 50 years & have somewhere near 800- 1k LPs. I think I know the difference!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  25. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Dedicated Listener

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    I think all of this handwringing can be turned into a net plus in used record sales pitches.

    "Guaranteed to have been stored in high-end protective inner sleeves since purchase — enhanced vinyl surface features inaudible all-analog audiophile micro-scratches as a sign of pristine quality and care."
     
    Gumboo likes this.

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