Microline vs SAS - differences?

Hard to find a decent comparison between the two.
Looks like some people claim they're both the same thing made by Namiki, just different names.
Other people seem to claim that they're both very similar, but actually different.
If they are different, what are the differences?
Is one better - more accurate - than the other or is there a tradeoff?

 

MicroRidge is the Namiki name for their patented stylus shape. The SAS is identical, I think they just buy the standard cantilever/stylus offerings from Namiki and glue them in their own aluminum tube and suspension assebly, and use their own name, they don't try to hide that. The AT MicroLine used to match the Namiki specs, but in more recent times, AT has changed the dimensions they list, so still a Namiki MicroRidge, but they may be specifying different dimensions, hard to say for sure.

 

From a previous post on the subject, the 33PTG/II and all the other previous MicroLine cartridges were listed with the Namiki MicroRidge dimensions at 75 x 2.5 um, but the current MicroLine variants, including the AT33PTG/II, OC9XML, VM540/740ML, 95ML, etc, have the same dimension listed now, 2.2 x .12 mil (56 x 3 um), so take your pick, but I think they are still using the Namiki MicroRidge. It may be they have moved to a less severe MR cut with these modified dimensions, hard to say, but the specs are consistent across the line

 

There is a lot of interesting discussion on this on Vinyl Engine.
In case you have not seen these:
Advanced Stylus Shapes: Pics, discussion, patents.- Vinyl Engine

Jico S.A.S -now taking orders- Vinyl Engine

My impression has always been the SAS diamond is virtually the same as the Namiki Microridge diamond.

 

I couldn't find those. Great resources.
Thanks.

Looks like Microridge and SAS are exactly the same, while the AT Microline is slightly different (probably insignificant).
I also learned that FG70 and FG90 are newer than Microlines and their shape is very strange... Interesting.

 

Does anyone know about actual books on stylus shapes an cartridge technology?
Looking for something more in-depth/technical.

 

The patents are out there. Just a thought.

 

Other than the patent documents (check Google Patents) I'm not sure such a resource exists. There are studies done by Shure back in the 70s and you can still download them online if you look. There might be some info from old issues of Stereo Review or something. Perhaps @needlestein can recommend something.

 

I know, but I'm looking for books.
You know... a collection of reliable information on the subject.
Doesn't need to be a newly printed book though; something from the 70s/80s/90s in either English or Dutch would be just fine.
I already have a decent book on turntables, so this would make a nice addition to that book.

 

Yeah that would be a pretty neat book.

The patents often seem to obscure as much as they illuminate.

 

I’m not aware of any books at all. Most of this stuff is/was very highly protected for a variety of strong commercial reasons. Some of the protections are legal like patent protection. Much of the protection is smoke and mirrors. Also, patenting a diamond shape is one thing, but I would assume the method of production would be more protected. How do you go about making a Micro Ridge or even a tiny standard bonded elliptical anyway? A standard conical seems easy enough, they were actually pocket watch bearings pressed into service as phonograph styli. They are actually turned on tiny lathes. I’ve never seen one of these lathes, but they must be common enough among watchmakers.
And bonded conicals can be produced so cheaply and rapidly that they cost pennies. Perhaps bonded ellipticals also cost pennies but the tech is so esoteric that there is a shortage now because the main industry supplier’s factory equipment has pretty much worn out.

In any case, I have found nothing in the form of a book that explains anything. I’d love to find a book that would show me how to make them (and where to get the raw material, by the way). But I don’t think I’m going to go find it.

What I know I’ve gotten most of from the very sources they have been linked to here and very little elsewhere. I deal with one defunct manufacturer who can still make bonded conical diamonds. They have since lost the equipment and the knowledge to make elliptical diamonds and hyperelliptical diamonds. They once supplied the entire industry! The BIG names. The know how and knowledge is unfortunately gone now. Sad.

 

Really?
Not just an urban legend?

Well, that’s on another level… I’m just looking for a book that explains a long list of styli shapes, a bit about their background, what their specs are and how they compare in terms of performance.

 

I thought they were pretty much the same and it seems thats the case reading this thread, @Davey knows a lot about this stuff.

 

Have you ever taken a pocket watch apart?

 

Yes, once took a Poljot apart to clean it, with much regret as a result…