Miles Davis - Birth of the Cool...there's no good version on CD!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Fortune, Dec 30, 2008.

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  1. Here's the corrected table. That's really weird that the US Capitol has a different peak level for just the last track. At first I thought it was an error either by me or Jason, but the peak levels are indeed the way they are now in the table.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. I am curious to know whether the Japanese CD Hans mentioned from the mid 90's has yet another mastering or if it uses the older (orange colored column) mastering.

    Also, if there is someone who owns the black triangle CD of this, I would be really interested in the peak levels. It's vey well possible that the Black Triangle uses yet another mastering.

    Anyhow, I think my Japanese CD from 1989 sounds o.k., but not really great either. But I didn't expect a great sound from a 1949/1950 recording either. My CD sounds smooth and easy to listen to, but it might lack a little sparkle.
     
  3. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    I have the orange column with 91.9 on the last track.

    CDP7 92862 2
    Matrix: B2 92862 L1531A
    (pink or violet face label CD)

    Sounds much better than the RVG.

    I wonder if the Japanese RVG in Mini LP package shares the same mastering from the US/EUR RVG CD...
     
  4. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    I have no way of determining the peak levels, but the total timing of my version, which has 11 tracks, is 32:28.

    These tracks are on my copy:
    Move
    Jeru
    Moon Dreams
    Venus de Milo
    Budo
    Deception
    Godchild
    Boplicity
    Rocker
    Israel
    Rouge

    Matrix: TOCJ-5953 1
     
  5. Thanks, Hans. So they left of "Darn That Dream", which has a vocal part if I remember correctly. I thought that this track was recorded on the same day as three other tracks, but I don't know what the original 78 releases were made of.
     
  6. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Correct. "Darn That Dream" was recorded on March 9, 1950 with three other tracks - see my post #34. I think Toshiba left it off because of the vocal, but that's pure speculation :)

    "Darn That Dream" was originally coupled with "Venus de Milo" (recorded on April 22, 1949) on Capitol 1221.
     
  7. I have the black triangle. Here is the EAC info:


    Total time: 35:55
    Cat No.: CP32-5181
    Matrix No.: CP32-5181 1A2 TO
    MFD. BY TOSHIBA EMI LTD. IN JAPAN

    Move.wav - Peak level 90.1 %
    Jeru.wav - Peak level 88.9 %
    Moon Dreams.wav - Peak level 78.4 %
    Venus De Milo.wav - Peak level 99.5 %
    Budo.wav - Peak level 100.0 %
    Deception.wav - Peak level 81.6 %
    Godchild.wav - Peak level 100.0 %
    Boplicity.wav - Peak level 63.5 %
    Rocker.wav - Peak level 94.3 %
    Israel.wav - Peak level 100.0 %
    Rouge.wav - Peak level 100.0 %
    Darn That Dream.wav - Peak level 79.2 %


    -s1m0n-
     
  8. Simon, thanks for the info, I updated the table. Now I am really curious to know how that Black Triangle sounds like, and also the TOCJ-5953 from 1995.

    If anyone with these CD versions is able to post a short sample clip, I would greatly appreciate that.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Great Deceiver

    Great Deceiver Active Member

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Roland, why do the two salmon colored Capitols have identical (except for the last track) peaks yet the TT for both differs by 13 minutes?!
     
  10. My Japan pressing has four extra tracks. See first table in an ealier post.
     
  11. OK, my most recent web host folded so I had to use a free service, I hope this link works for you (miles davis birth of the cool black triangle CD 60 second samples c. 80 Mb rar file):

    http://megaupload.com/?d=D4W82N4T

    -s1m0n-
     
  12. Great Deceiver

    Great Deceiver Active Member

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Sorry, missed that, makes sense now. Where are those 4 tracks from?
     
  13. Khojem

    Khojem Forum Resident

    Location:
    Irvine, CA, USA
    To me at least the black triangle version of Darn That Dream sounds better than the RVG edition. Hard to believe since the black triangle is not from the master tapes. The other tracks on the black triangle seem to have more breath and more bottom end. Still not the perfect Birth of the Cool, but at least the sound is not goosed like the RVG.
     
  14. These four extra tracks are from another recording session which took place one day before or after one of the session dates for "Birth of the Cool". This session was recorded under Tadd Dameron as a leader, but the personell is at least 50% the same as for the BOTC sessions, so I feel that these four extra tracks really fit on there.
     
  15. Simon, thanks a lot for posting the samples. I downloaded them, burnt them to CD-RW and compared them with my 2nd Japanese pressing.

    The Black Triangle sounds like it was made from pretty bad tape copies. I like the sound on my 2nd Japanese pressing better, by quite a bit actually.
     

  16. Hello Hans, and others,

    now that I compared my 1989 CD (2nd Japanese pressing) to the first Japanese pressing (Black Triangle), and also did some more listening to these recordings in general, I think my CD pressing from 1989 actually sounds pretty good. I don't think I would expect a better sounding CD from a 1949/1950 recording. The CD sounds warm and smooth to me, and I wouldn't call it veiled. I wouldn't want any more treble added to these recordings, which would probably make them sound harsh. I think the 1989 CD has quite good sound, and the instruments sound natural and clear to me.

    Maybe your CD from 1995 has yet another (inferior?) mastering, I don't know.

    I am quite happy with my TOCJ version, and I also like the four extra tracks on there. From what I know so far and from this thread, I would rate my 2nd Japanese CD as the pressing to own (on CD). Maybe not perfect, but as good as it is going to get most likely.
     
  17. Fortune

    Fortune Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    There's some great information here. Thanks, everyone, for contributing. :)
     
  18. I just found this web resource that states that the recordings took place at the Capitol Recording Studios:

    http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=490121
    http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=490422
    http://www.plosin.com/MilesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=500309

    And the four bonus tracks on my CD:

    http://www.plosin.com/milesAhead/Sessions.aspx?s=490421

    The CD I have sounds like it is made from tape, but I am no expert to determine this.
     
  19. J.A.W.

    J.A.W. Music Addict

    Roland,

    See my post #34; the Capitol Recording Studio, NYC info is already there.
     
  20. Khojem

    Khojem Forum Resident

    Location:
    Irvine, CA, USA
    Would you be willing to post a clip or two of your 2nd Japanese pressing, please?
     
  21. goldwax

    goldwax Rega | Cambridge | Denafrips | Luxman | Dynaudio

    Location:
    US of A
    Just noticed that I missed your mention of this 1971 LP version, Chip!

    Anyway, I retrieved my copy from work today and have just sat down and A/B'd is against the RVG. The LPs sounds really good to me though keep in mind my headphones are probably not the most detailed or revealing. (Venus de Milo is not missing any of the beginning on this LP--it's the same as the RVG.)

    The RVG by comparison seems thicker, as opposed to the more airy sound of the LP. I do notice what seems to be some treble boost on the RVD. But I'm not sure how much if any NR was used on the RVG--the hiss on Move seems boosted really high on the RVG, whereas it's noticeable but not in the way on the LP.

    More than anything, though, it seems to be the squashed feeling of the RVG that makes it suffer in comparison to the Capitol LP. I'm not that well versed in these things, but could this be a result of too much compression?

    I'd love to hear more comments about the Capitol version. You can get them pretty cheap, if anyone's curious to hear what they sound like.
     
  22. Oops, completely missed that.

    Anyhow, the website I posted the links to is pretty neat, so it is a good reference to have in this thread (I think).
     
  23. Sure, I can do that. Which tracks, or doesn't it matter?

    I'll see what I can do later today.
     
  24. goldwax

    goldwax Rega | Cambridge | Denafrips | Luxman | Dynaudio

    Location:
    US of A
    Ah, OK--I was wondering why I didn't hear this and it just dawned on me why: I had the mono switch on my receiver turned on.
     
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