Miles Davis fans: Can you expound on the music happening between 'Miles Smiles' and 'Kind of Blue'

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MRamble, Apr 9, 2020.

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  1. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I'm right now getting into the music from this period and trying to wrap my head around it. I can tell there is a shift happening starting with "Miles Smiles" but can't tell what exactly is going on from a technical standpoint.. Any music theorists and serious jazz fans care to show your thoughts about the direction that Miles and his band was taking the music during this period?
     
  2. DeRosa

    DeRosa Vinyl Forever

    The theory of Miles' progress generally falls into two productive periods, 'The first Great Quintet" and "The second Great Quintet".

    Miles' recordings with Coltrane are legendary, and after a period of time after Coltrane left, he formed the 2nd classic group
    in 1963 and things took off from there with the energy and creativity of the astonishingly talented younins'.

    If you google 'miles second great quintet' you'll find lots of material.
    How Miles Davis' Second Great Quintet Changed Jazz | Miles Davis
    Jazz at 100 Hour 77: Miles Davis and the Second Great Quintet (1963 - 1968) - WTJU
     
  3. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Isn't it the other way around? :winkgrin:
     
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  4. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    The shift occured on the previous album ESP (and live albums from 1963) although Miles Smiles goes further in a free direction. The Second Great Quinter is rated as one of the premier small groups in jazz history.

    Miles was marking time creatively though still producing great music after Coltrane left his band in 1960. Starting in 1963 the next quintet with younger players gradually came together, first with the great George Coleman on tenor, then with the great Wayne Shorter. The music gradually moved in a freer direction which came to be known as "time, no changes"; in essence they largely quit playing chord changes, or avoided stating them, and improvised on scales based on the themes/heads of the tunes - notable on Miles Smiles where Herbie Hancock doesn't comp most of the time, while maintaining a consistent tempo, although Tony Williams was also elastic with the time keeping. So, free jazz without being free jazz.
     
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  5. Duckman

    Duckman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Belgium
    Assuming you are referring to Miles' directions from Kind of Blue to Miles Smiles to Bitches Brew, the key word is; exploration. The Bootleg Series are IMHO crucial for understanding the shifts in direction. After the Modal period of Miles' first great Quintet, he was pushed into Free territory when Trane was about to leave his employer. The Final Tour 1960, (the last of the Bootleg Series!) is revelatory in this respect. Trane's 'sheets of sound' improvisations in a rather classic setting was a shock for the European audiences. Miles was not deaf and blind. It is no secret he loathed Free Jazz, but his sidemen convinced him to explore new grounds. Sam Rivers and George Coleman, but most of all, Wayne Shorter. The latter half of the sixties, electric guitars, larger venues such as the Fillmores, Winterland and the great festival turned Miles in veritable super star. Not perfect, but the documentary 'Miles, The Birth of the Cool' is also essential. Check it out!
     
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  6. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Thanks everyone. I meant to write in my first post "Miles Ahead" as that is the album that has caught my ear right now. It's a wonderful mix of the "big band" sound with the loose improvisational sound. It's aesthetically very pleasing to the ear. I guess I'm trying to prepare myself and set the stage for what is to come in the following albums after Miles Ahead.
     
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  7. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    A-ha.
    That's way simpler. Miles Ahead - Miles had signed with Columbia which made a big band project possible. The album is essentially Miles and Gil Evans' developing their ideas from the Birth Of The Cool period.

    The big development at this time - especially on Kind Of Blues - was modal improvisation, which is playing solos based on scales instead of playing notes that fit over rapidly changing chords, which is how Miles and his band mostly played pre 1957 - hard bop.
     
  8. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident Thread Starter

    His work with Gil Evans really intrigues me. Miles Ahead has quite a special sound and feel. I'm going to sit with it a little longer before jumping onto Miles Smiles. Any resources come to mind that I could look into that goes into the technical stuff you mention...playing over scales vs chord progressions?
     
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  9. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    This is a great book though you may have to look around for one, not sure if it's out of print.

    Gil Evans & Miles Davis -- Historic Collaborations 1957--1962 : Gil Evans : 9783892210641
     
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  10. MRamble

    MRamble Forum Resident Thread Starter

  11. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    Seems to be out of print but I'm seeing it on ebay. It's especially great if you're interested in Gil Evans' arrangements.

    Porgy And Bess is in my top 10 albums. Absolutely brilliant.
     
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