MINT Technics SL-1200mk2 vs new SL-1500C

Unfortunately no. We do know it was optimized to work well with Ortofon cartridges like the 2M series.

 

So probably between. 150 and 300pf.
I was considering getting an SL-1500C and it would be a nice touch if the specs of the internal phono-pre were in the recommended range for AT cartridges.

 

Most of the purchasers on here and other audio forums are buying the 1500C for the look. Very few of them are using the on board phono from what I have seen.

 

For what it's worth, the internal in the SL-1500C paired with my AT VM540ML even better than an Ortofon Red or Blue.

 

I totally disagree. A lot of people are using the on board phono and those that are say good things. I don't think most people are purchasing this turntable for the look? Technics aren't exactly the best looking turntables out there.

Technics SL-1500C review | What Hi-Fi?

"Surprise number one is that the built-in phono stage is really good... the SL-1500C package, as supplied, is one of the best sounding we’ve heard at this price"

 

It sure looks good
The internal phono-pre is supposed to be pretty good. As the phono-pre in my amp has a capacitance of 180pF, having the option to run a <200pF (total) setup would be a big plus.

On the other hand I'm starting to wonder if a slight high frequency boost when using a phono-pre with "average" specs may be intentional and part of the design. It does make sense for a medium that tends to have some high frequency roll off..

 

Several people on this forum, AK, and VE have commented they prefer the look of the 1500C due to the lack of the pitch slider. Not sure if you missed that, but it's true. Dig out old threads on this if you don't believe me.

Further, what does a rag site review have to do with any of this? Nothing.

Of the 3-4 1500C owners I've had interactions with, none of them use the internal phono. They all use something else. None of them use the 2M Red cartridge the TT comes with either.

 

You could always try it and see if it's to your liking or not. If you don't like it, plenty of cheap standalone phono preamps out there.

 

... No need to get hostile. We are discussing turntables lol.

Multiple people on this forum have also posted about how they DO use it. I'm aware several do not. I scoured these forums before I took the plunge on purchasing mine for every review I could find. I spun a few records using the internal, a Gram Amp 2 and a Rega Fono MK3 and it wasn't an easy winner among the three, which says something for a built in preamp! I came to this table from a Rega P3/Elys 2 and the excellent Rega Fono MK3 and do not feel I am lacking with this move. Those purchasing the table should definitely give it a chance and a thorough listen before buying an external preamp or do some ABing as I did. I was just chiming in with my opinion because I actually own the table and have personal experience with it. You also have to be aware that this forum is nowhere near the majority of the audience purchasing this or most turntables. We are a very small and unique bunch (for better and for worse).

The reviews I posted are just more opinions of people who have used the product. Both of these sources give negative reviews of items as well as positive so I trust their judgement to a certain degree and take it with a grain of salt as another first hand opinion on a product.

 

We all know the built in phono is not cheap junk like you get in a Hanpin or Ya Horng OEM deck.

And yeah, this forum represents a minority of buyers.

The 1500C is the "lifestyle" product of the new Tech line. Someone that only has powered speakers or even a soundbar can simply hook up the 1500C if their speakers have the right input jacks. Surely Tech/Panasonic was thinking of courting that market when designing the product.

I personally did not buy a 1500C because I didn't need any of the extras it came with over another model. I didn't want to pay for things I would not use.

 

Sounds like it's not the product for you then, good move!

 

My AT-VM95E sounds fine with 180p plus cable and tonearm capacitance, but I still wonder if lower capacitance would make an audible difference.

I've had a look at a number of affordable phono pres and most seem to have capacitances around 200pF or no data available. The Art DJ Pre seems like the best affordable solution, but with a minium setting of 100pF it's not quite ideal for AT cartridges. Under 50pF would be preferable, assuming a cable/tonearm capacitance of 150pF...

I emailed Technics' support about the capacitance of the internal pre-amp. I hope I will get an answer.

 

My preamp have 100pF and it works perfect with AT.

I think 50pF it's uncommon and not a "must" for AT cartridges ... surely a preamp with more than 100pF can be problematic.

 

I wonder if the OP had better luck with his repurchase of the GR.

 

It will. I have a 1200 mk2 built in 2001 that sits on top of a 3/4" oak plywood cabinet that houses my amps etc that also sits right beside one of my Cornwalls. One would think this would be a recipe for audio disaster but no, it's not. I've never had any acoustic feedback issues nor can I hear footfalls while walking anywhere in my listening room. My house is 50 years old with wooden floors that I can assure you are not the most solid on this earth. There are no other sound isolating items under the TT other than it's original feet. Mine was also in mint condition when purchased.

 

I don't think you need to go that low for the VM95. 100pf at the phono preamp should be fine, assuming the cables aren't crazy high capacitance. See the lab tests done at the link below. Those tests were done at 210pf total:

Familientest Audio-Technica VM95: 5 MM-Abtaster unter 200 Euro - LowBeats

I've been told by a reliable source that the internal tonearm wiring of the 1500C (and probably the rest of the new Technics decks) is ~20pf or so. If you're worried about it, you can measure it yourself with a capacitance meter.

Now, since the all these new Technics decks have RCA jacks and not hardwired cables, you can use whatever cables you want. The cables I use have around ~17pf per foot, but there are some cables that have even lower capacitance than that. Connectors like the type I have and the ones BJC uses are only going to add something like ~2pf each, which is what BJC told me.

 

I have a phono pre that can be set to 0, but 100pf is the ticket and works well.
The cables I am using at the moment have something like 70 +/-pf, and with the tonearm wire (12ish pf on a GR?)
the total comes in at just under 200, which works great with a VM95ml, AT140lc and a VM740ml.
100pf is likely ideal at the stage as you can get lower pf with a Blue Jeans cable (something like 68pf?), or a even lower cap. cable.

Edit: I've tried the 0 setting and it just allows more noise into the line.

 

True, I hadn't considered using different cables. That sure would make reaching <200pF with the Art easier. I don't need a long cable anyway.

In the meantime I received an email from Panasonic's customer service. The specs of the SL-1500C's internal preamp are as follows:
56kohm/390 pF
Gain: 37dB

I would be able to do better with my amp's phono-pre...

 

I'm surprised you were able to get an answer. 56K load was probably done to counteract the high capacitance for the 2Ms. Maybe EMC regs pushed them to jack it up. Yeah, too high for AT carts.

 

I have a Pro-Ject ds2 tube box, and you can select a capacitance from 47pf to 367pf, and switching from 47 to 147pf I noticed an unnatural emphasis on low frequencies at 47pf, but it smothered the high frequencies that could sound too splashy especially on cymbals. All in all I think 147 is the right capacitance, but it depends on your "sound preferences".
Basic Pro-Ject pre-phono have a low capacitance of 47pf and are pretty cheap

 

What kind of sound loss would be occurring when pairing an AT cart with the built in pre-amp?

 

We'd have to measure to be sure, but it would likely be roll-off at the high frequencies with a hump further down into the audible band. Depending on your age and hearing situation you may not notice a difference.

 

How do you know they're made in Taiwan? I thought the MK7 and 1500C were made in Malaysia. (Incidentally, the GR is no longer made in Japan either.)

 

I might have mistaken Taiwan for Malaysia, I can’t really remember. Sorry! I just know that the 1500C and MK7 have always come from the Panasonic factory.

 

No worries. It's Malaysia... unfortunately, but that's a conversation for another thread.