MM/MI cartridge for thorens tp309?

Can someone recommend an MM cart which would be a good match for thorens td 309 with 11g tp92 tonearm (same as td 1600).

I am using it with the TAS267 cartridge that came with it, with the phono stage built into Yamaha rx a1060 AVR (min 3.5 MV, no info about capacitance).

I can find ortofon, goldring and audio technica. Based on many posts here, and on other forums, it seems that at vm540ml or ortofon 2m blue could be good options. Both are rated at 1000h (durability is important to me), but the ortofon seems to be a safer bet due to more flexible capacitance rating. What about Rega exact?

The Yamaha phono seems to have lp gain, since the volume fro the turntable is 10-15db lower (not measured, talking about the values on the AVR display). So again ortofon has more output voltage... Rega exact akos has high voltage, but not much other info on their website? Can I even mount the Rega cart on th thorens tonearm? It has some 3 point fixing system?

If a new phono pre is a must for the new cart, I can get: pro ject, Rega, Cambridge audio with some limitation of available models. Would like to avoid tubes.

Thanks

 

Looking at the service manual for your AVR, the phono input sensitivity is 3.5mV compared to 200mV for the line inputs, so 35dB gain. The input capacitance is either 220pF or 440pF, depending on the market. Looks like in Europe you will be the higher value. It's just a real simple single-opamp phono stage, pretty typical for an AVR, and the same as Yamaha uses in their integrated amps up through the A-S801 too...

 

You can mount Rega cartridges an any 1/2 inch mount tonearm. You just don't use the forward mount hole; it's only used with Rega tonearms.

• Output: 6.8 - 7.2mV

The height of the cartridge is usually 2 mm lower than most other cartridges, so you may need to shim the cartridge between the headshell or alternately use a platter mat 2 mm thicker than the one you are currently using.

 

Should be no problem, if my understanding of the manuals is correct, the tonearm/table should allow me to correct vta and asymuth. If additional tweaking is needed, I must use the screw underneath the turntable. However, I would like to keep amount of tweaking on a minimum req. level.
Here are some thorens links with the manuals for the tonearm and turntable.
Link to the tonearm:TP 92
Link to the turntable: THORENS® TD 309

So, do you think the Rega Exact is a better choice than the Ortofon or Audio Technica for some reason?

 

I hope it's not 440pf, seems too high for most cartridges on the market...
Do your recomend an upgrade, or is this generally OK?
Is there any difference between the phono on rxa 1060 and rx a2050, which I also have (could swap places if it makes sense)?

 

Well, many modern AVRs have pretty high capacitance on the phono preamps inputs to meet worldwide EMI regulations. Some parts of the world have more stringent rules. In this case, there is an extra 220pF capacitor added for some regions, designated s72 on schematic. The table below from the schematic shows which regions it applies. Note that for JUCT and RS regions it is marked with X, but KABGLF is marked 220pF. So if your AVR is labeled on the back for one of the regions in KABGLF, then it will likely be 440pF total on the phono input. If not, then likely 220pF. You'd have to open it up and visually verify to be sure, sometimes the service manual isn't accurate.

I agree that is too much, but it obviously works, you are using the Thorens labeled Audio Technica AT95E now, with a recommended load capacitance spec of 100-200pF. If sound quality is a concern, an AVR phono stage generally isn't the best choice, and not just because of the high capacitance...

 

An 11-gram tonearm will work with the vast majority of cartridges. Just to be safe, avoid any carts that are extremely high compliance or extremely low.

The only thing I can say about an AVR phono stage is that they should never be used if you're after good sound quality. In my experience, I've never had to worry about capacitance when using a good phono stage and any MM or MI cartridge.

 

Davey, thanks for a very detailed explaination of the capacitance for each reagion! I will check the serial number later. Since SQ is something I seek to improve, I guess, I should also budget for a phono pre. Would a pro ject phono box s2 or an s2 ultra be a significant improvement? Or a rega phono mm mk3?

 

I can get pro ject phono box s2, Rega phono mm mk3 and Cambridge audio solo at the moment, locally. Are these any good? Will there be a significant improvement compared to the one on board Yamaha? Seems unreasonable to pay more than 300 for this (the entire AVR was 1600 maybe...)...

 

I think any of those would be a significant improvement over the Yamaha, but might want to start a thread on that subject and outline what your budget and goals are, and make it clear where you live and what is available in your region to prevent a lot of suggestions that aren't available to you in Serbia. I don't have any preference or personal familiarity with any of the stages you have listed, so just going by past discussions here and around the internet. Would you be working through an audio dealer, or buying online? Any chance you can borrow any of them for home demo? What about buying used, much of a local market?

 

Just checked, the first letter of the serial number is Y, and the last letter is U, the rest are numbers..., Am I looking at the wrong label?

I I thont see an Y anywhere in the table..

Guess it should be 220 then?

 

I don't know if the location code is in the serial number, but should be other info on the back in the labels. The service manual has nine drawings of the back for the regions showing the labeling, you can download it for free at a few places, but below is a capture of those three pages...

 

Hey, thanks again for the great information. Mine has the EAC CE and the third sign, so its the B, G, F model. Thanks.
I guess it would be smart to avoid upper range At carts, and go with Ortofon, which are rated up to 300pf.
Since the built in phono is a basic one, without an external phono, I wonder if it is reasonable to get the 2m bronze (400 eur) or should I make a limit at the 2m blue (220eur) or even the red (110eur)....

Anyway, thanks again for helping determine the Yamaha capacitance!