Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has been cutting vinyl from digital since a long, long time ago...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ben Adams, Jul 14, 2022.

  1. Round and round and round,this topic though entertaining has run its course,this thread has now turned into an argument and its getting childish.
     
    COBill likes this.
  2. audiotom

    audiotom I can not hear a single sound as you scream

    Location:
    New Orleans La USA
    I’m waiting for Mike 45rpm’s review of the Bill Evans boxset

    Especially comparing Everybody Digs Bill Evans to his pride and joy Electric Recording Company copy.

    Cough cough
     
    4-2-7 likes this.
  3. Cjb2233

    Cjb2233 Forum Resident

    Good one.
     
  4. MonkeyTennis

    MonkeyTennis Billie Eilish style

    Location:
    Manchester
    I wasn’t being snarky. You didn’t quote who you were responding to and so I have no idea what ‘chart’ you are referring to.
     
  5. Cjb2233

    Cjb2233 Forum Resident

    Ah. My bad. It showed as a reply to post my end.
     
    MonkeyTennis likes this.
  6. MonkeyTennis

    MonkeyTennis Billie Eilish style

    Location:
    Manchester
    Fair enough: I’m on an iPad - so it may be an issue with how it displays in Safari. Which is a shame. Cos I really, really, really enjoy my charts :D
     
  7. Cjb2233

    Cjb2233 Forum Resident

    Lol. Yea. The original chart was tape to laquer. Honestly blown away that this far into the thread some people dont know that. Its a little deaper on Google images now but still there. I gave up trying to get a pic to post.
     
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  8. MonkeyTennis

    MonkeyTennis Billie Eilish style

    Location:
    Manchester
    Ah, now I know what you mean: the OneStep schematic. I’ve got a copy right here. Thanks for the clarification.
     
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  9. spewey

    spewey Senior Member

    Location:
    Little Rock
    Checking IMPEX’s website for their Earth, Wind & Fire LP… are they taking shots at MOFI?? :D:D:D — maybe it’s someone else.

    (Disclaimer: I tried to vet that this hasn’t been posted already… but if it has… I apologize and accept any punishment deemed necessary by the gatekeepers of this thread)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  10. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    Why aren't the competing reissue companies suing?
     
  11. playsFastForward

    playsFastForward just as long as he can

    Location:
    USA
    With each passing post we’re zeroing out the ledger for certain unresolved misunderstandings and arguments.

    Soon there will come a day when a full reconciliation and alignment of this thread and its posters will be manifested into the most powerful thread the internet has ever seen!
     
    Otto Konrad likes this.
  12. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Gang- I just read through the last several pages. I don't think we should get hung up on the term "audiophile" because it really doesn't advance any analysis here and isn't very meaningful- it's like the empty phrase "Mastered from the original tapes" (which says nothing about intervening steps) or 180 gram (which really doesn't do anything apart from telling you its a more recent release).
    I think to parse whether there is something actionable, you actually have to look at the law. In the Stiles case, the plaintiff relies on, among other things, North Carolina's Deceptive Practices Act. That law says it applies to conduct that has "a tendency to deceive" and requires no proof of actual deception. You can argue about whether MoFi's conduct, taken together, is misleading but when you combine the "ultra analog" moniker with the diagram showing tape to convert with no intervening step, the various emails, messages and videos touting "all analog," as well as MoFi's admission, made only after the "reveal," that it did indeed employ a digital step in masterings --something that was awkwardly revealed in the July 19 Three Engineers interview (released July 20 by IG Mike) as well as Jim Davis' statement after the fact that he regretted how this information was made available, I think you have more than enough to get out of the starting gate.
    Most of these state law unfair competition statutes are intended to give consumers a claim as a means of cleaning up shoddy or unethical business practices. The state itself, usually through its Attorney General's office, has power to enforce such laws as well, but giving consumers a mechanism to address their grievances relieves the state of that burden and is often most apt, as an aggrieved consumer has an incentive to pursue a claim. In many cases, treble damages and attorney's fees are available as part of the remedy, adding further incentive to the consumer to pursue such claims.
    Damages or injury can be measured in many ways. Often with the use of experts. One of the leading cases under the North Carolina law involved mobile home owners who bought products equipped with a certain tie-down system that prevented damage to the mobile home. Apparently, the tie-down system did not meet industry standards. The defendant sought to dismiss on the basis that the plaintiffs had suffered no harm or injury. The appellate court said otherwise; that the allegation of a defective tie-down system was sufficient to state a claim under the relevant statute.
    This is not intended to be legal advice of any sort. I'm not a North Carolina lawyer. I am in fact retired. I raise this simply to point out that if you are parsing the law, you should look at the law itself.
    From what I gather, Abraxas was the real winning album in the mix of One Steps MoFi released. Others may be good or not so good-- I'm not going to pretend to catalog people's views here. It seems to me a straightforward proposition for someone aggrieved to say "I wouldn't have bought this had I known about a digital step" or "I wouldn't have spent this kind of money for a record with a digital step" or "There was another version I would have bought from a different company had I known this." This may not sound like a lot of money for a few albums here and there, but the damage award can be trebled (3x) and if multiple plaintiffs are involved, could amount to a significant award, apart from the award of attorney's fees.
    As to whether an element of proof is that the DSD rendered copy did not sound as good as pure AAA, I doubt that is an element of the case since it merely requires a tendency to deceive. That can be shown without getting into the sonic characteristics of DSD- namely that MoFi certainly gave the impression that their records were AAA, but in fact, were not (except the few now identified as tape to lathe). I suppose MoFi can claim that the sonic transparency of 4xDSD shows "no harm" but that would go to damages, not whether their conduct, taken together, had a tendency to deceive.
    Like anything else, the law has its foibles. As someone who did this as a profession for many decades, I don't like placing bets on outcomes-- it's always a risk, for both sides, and results can be unpredictable. Any of you with first hand knowledge of litigation probably know that. Even more so when you are dealing with various state laws that have their own history of interpretation.
    I offer this, not to criticize any of the participants but to suggest that once you start delving into these waters, they can get deep fast and you need someone who is knowledgeable of the applicable law. I do not pretend that, but only sound this is a note of caution.
    Yours, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  13. Otto Konrad

    Otto Konrad Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    It does feel that way to some extent.
     
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  14. Otto Konrad

    Otto Konrad Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    I know this was a lot of work. A lot time to put this together. Thank you. Its an excellent summary.
     
  15. Sex Lies And Master Tapes

    Sex Lies And Master Tapes Gaulois réfractaire

    Location:
    Nantes, France
    It's George Massenburg, not Massenberg...
    Mofi did recently a reissue of this album, on SACD only.
    Music On Vinyl did a reissue in 2021.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
    spewey likes this.
  16. spewey

    spewey Senior Member

    Location:
    Little Rock
    If IMPEX don’t know how to spell dude’s name… can we even trust them that it’s “all-analog”??? :D:D:D
     
  17. spewey

    spewey Senior Member

    Location:
    Little Rock
    Mofi and Music On Vinyl are practically the same company now… or… they are looked upon the same now… (both digital vinyl)


    [Disclaimers: This statement was made in jest and not intended to put forth as fact that all people on earth believe that Mofi and Music On Vinyl are REALLY the same company]
     
  18. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    I think they assumed AAA, but that assumption was facilitated by absent or misleading verbiage by the maker.

    I'm of the opinion that a DSD stage is sonically superior to an additional tape "generation," but obviously, others are not.

    Even others are "agnostic" on the subject, and concentrating on the marketing "ploy."

    All opinions, being opinions, are valid.
     
    dheath, MielR, DIYmusic and 1 other person like this.
  19. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    That is hilarious! :laugh:
     
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  20. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    Some opinions, like yours, are unfortunately uninformed (or possibly merely misinformed) so they're invalid in my eyes.

    Conveniently ignoring emails, videos, and individual meetings with MFSL reps all stating they're purists or that there's no digital whatsoever in their chain, or that they're "as purely analog as the virgin snow" is applying some mightily thick blinders.

    Any reasonable logical person would not dismiss that extensive proof.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2022
  21. For what ?
     
  22. If there’s a class action settlement I’ll probably opt out of my $5 rebate.
     
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  23. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    This will more than likely be the upshot of the reimbursement for 99% of the consumers who acquired these LP's. However, IMO, it is not the key aspect here. That goes to the behavior pattern that MoFi and Davis thought they may be able to get away with, and IMO ( only my opinion here) they need to be taught that this kind of behavior is unacceptable in this society. This is the crux of what the courts will potentially be deciding.
     
  24. Bill Hart

    Bill Hart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin
    Cue the Dude:

     
    playsFastForward likes this.
  25. mpayan

    mpayan A Tad Rolled Off

    I think both our points are valid and do not contradict. I agree with you on DSD. Not that it matters whether I do or not.

    Others are valid also in their opinions.

    The worlds being blown up across the ocean. Who care really about all this crap anyway?
     
    ubiknik and Mazzy like this.

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