Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has been cutting vinyl from digital since a long, long time ago...

The dsd has left a stain on my soul though... I need to get my priest to exorcise the demons from my cartridge.

 

You make a lot of comments.
When you say the Pretenders is "not even close", in what way?? Not even close implies a huge degradation in sound quality.............

What is "All analog ear candy" mean to you?
I can almost guarantee you, any degradation you are hearing is due to the masters not being in prime shape, or issues playing them and NOT due to a digital step in the chain.

 

You are making a huge assumption, that most care about a digital step in the chain, when that is considered normal, is normal and makes more sense, and had been the standard for quite a long time.

Yes they were intentionally vague, but those that assumed in this day and age, ANYTHING would be AAA or lacking SOME digital step would be in my estimation, a bit lacking in knowledge as to how things work overall.

I can guarantee you, almost all recordings are done with digital in some step, as analog simply, on stuff this old, will either wear tapes or take a mild degradation in sound by using copies of copies.

DSD is the only way things are done for many reasons.
Should they have said......YES!
Do most care........DOUBTFUL

 

You have challenged me for no reason actually. Because what you are "challenging" doesnt exist. You are swatting imaginary flies. Maybe you can hear there are flies that arent really there, I dont know.

Again and for the tens upon tens time:

I have stated numerous times that I understand that people feel lied to. I even said that I felt the same way to a degree. Im not sure why you feel led once again to drop this statement towards me as if I dont know or havent addressed it before.

By telling me I am not wearing a scarlett letter, you are doing the exactly same thing you accuse me of. That somehow I shouldnt feel the way I feel.

Dont tell me how I feel or how I should feel.

Espcially when there has been evidence on behavior towards me that supports how I feel.

The reactions and insults fired towards me in this thread due to my stance makes me feel exactly at times as if Im some sort of evil supporter of Mofi. Ive been called a liar, stupid, to shut up and various other name calling and barbs.

And it isnt simply because folks feel
lied to. The two actions are different. One is being a jerk towards someone because of their stance and the other is people feeling lied to. As if what I have stated about my stance somehow attacks the way they feel. I havent told them they are stupid, liars or to shut up for feeling the way they do. So dont tell me how I should feel or that I am not justified to feel the way I do. By evidence that I seen and read hurled my way, I am very much justified.

I personally dont care what you can "abide by" concerning my moral fiber or integrity. Especially concerning if I continue to purchase Mofi lps or not. And certainly I place no credence in your opinions if you feel led to look down your nose at me as if my morals and core belief makes me some sort of compromising acceptor of deception because I choose to continue to purchase a Mofi lp.

There are many many customers that feel they were decieved, yet still buy Mofi products. Why dont you go tell the folks on the other thread and all over the world who will still buy from Mofi that they are compromisers and look down at them also. Attack their integrity see how that goes for you.

And trust me, of you want to go this compromiser route youll stand just as guilty by the same judgement. Ill share why here later on in the post. If you get that far. I get the idea you dont read my responses thoroughly anyway. If you did read what I say, you wouldnt keep repeating the same things over and over to me.

In general, though while I dont owe you or anyone else a moral defense I will say this:

I have lost jobs due to my stance against things in the medical field that I did not agree with and knew were morally and ethically wrong. Life and death matters. So dont attack my integrity with your high moral stance over some silly record collecting thread. You dont have some moral and integrity magic ball to see who I am or what I stand for that actually matters in life.

By the way a stance you usually come in and lay out as if some dictate then simply leave. You arent exchanging dialogue. You simply declare these long mostly spurious narratives against me and then skitter off from the thread as if you have made some substantive declaration with a pretend gavel. So go look at your own "integrity" in how you engage before you judge my integrity.

And Ive purchased many Og's of albums and have found the same to be true as far as Mofi not standing up to them soundwise. Heck 95% or more of collection are originals.

So what?

We already know that some Mofis sound great and few actually give the orginals a run for their money or beat originals.

As far as Mofi scamming people due to snakeoil type stuff, there is always the debate of whether or not 45 rpm and Super Vinyl make much a difference. Go tell AP and Chad that they are snake oil salesmen also if it is a case that one thinks these methods are gimmicks to simply raise the prices.

I am a believer by objective/ subjective listening evidence supported by mastering engineers understanding about physics that 45 rpm does affect the sound quality. I think of these processes and methods as supporters of what really matters: Mastering. Are these other factors such as vinyl formulation or 45 rpm the be all end all? No. But they do support the sound in some way I believe, if only marginally.

Others disagree and think its hogwash. So what?

That doesnt mean Mofi is neccessarily using 45s and super vinyl as some scam.

If so, then Music Matters was simply the biggest scammers of them all. But they werent to me. Because the 45s IMO sound better than the 33.3's. This is all very up for debate. But none of it is absolute evidence these are scamming techniques. But because Mofi deceived in one area then by golly they must be deceptive in everything else. Ridiculous stance IMO.

The reason for an original "smoking" a Mofi lp is due to mastering by far. Has very little to due with the type vinyl or if 45 rpm was used (though those may play a supportive part) Thats why your og Metallicas sound better. Thats why my og Metallicas sound better. Same with the Pretenders. My UK Tim Tom is tons better. And every descriptor I would use to describe why is a mastering descriptor.

A few quotes from you that I will address:


"Mobile Fidelity doesn’t deserve our trust or loyalty after at least 10+ years of lying to its customers for premium-priced products."

Whether or not they deserve support or not is each persons decision to make for themselves. And of one decides they do not want to then that is fine. If I decide I do want to continue, it doesnt make me a less honorable person.


"Customers’ capitulations to their excuses without any sort of price reductions or other material olive branches is so disappointing. Thousands of disappointed and betrayed customers deserve better."

I have always stated their prices are too high. I havent capitulated anything. I simply understand their reasoning as to why they went with DSD and based upon what I have read and experienced with DSD choose to go with their reasoning as it to be the best methodology.

That doesnt mean I agree or like or surrender to their deception. Again, one can believe in a methodology yet not support the way the methodology was presented to the buyer.

Do I think that based upon that methodology of DSD as a transfer method prices should drop? Somewhat, yes. Im not sure how I stand on this matter in some ways.

But my ultimate stance goes even higher:

Audiophile companies IMO have been inflating prices all over the place for as long as I can recall. And I dont like it period. Long before any of this started I was complaining about the prices. And withe the ultra packaging nonesense both One Steps and UHQRs have reached the peak of ridiculous pricing.


"I’m listening to a $5 early all-analog 1980’s reissue of Creedence Clearwater Revival’s Green River right now. It’s not on heavyweight vinyl; it’s not in a Stoughton jacket; it doesn’t have a designer lacquer-cut. But it sound amazing with a beautiful instrumental separation on clean vinyl. What a soundstage! I’d be hard-pressed to think that MoFi could best this physically; but I’d easily believe that their marketing department could convince me and thousands of other audiophiles why their secretly-digital file on vinyl was worth spending $40-125 on it right now."

Again, I agree that the general way to go concerning best sound is orginals and older reissues. And I agree the inflated packaging to increase prices is a joke. Im a mazzyman on that one.

As far as you finding a $5.00 Green River and Mofi not being able to best it and by far?

Here, hold my Abraxas.

Can they make a Green River sound better than any other version? Oh yeah its possible. Would they be able to is an unknown since they arent doing Green River.

But the relative issue is:

Whether one thinks the best ever sounding One Step "Green River" would be worth the money due to DSD is up to each person to decide. Again, it doesnt make a person terrible to pay for what they consider best sound regardless of the transfer method.

Basically your arguement to a degree is one of methodology used and the deception involved.

While mine is more based upon:

"Does this really sound the best. And does that "degree" of best justiy me paying $125.00 for?"

Two differing ways of seeing things. Difference is Im not judging you concerning your stance. You are judging my very character for mine.

"Your argument that DSD can be good is specious. Yes, it can be good. And most of us buy it on vinyl when it comes to new vinyl music or reissues that don’t claim to be from AAA stock. But it doesn’t mean we should continue to bend over and be paddled on the backside and pay premium prices for it when we think we’re purchasing all-analog ear candy."


My arguement that DSD can be good is superficially plausible, but actually wrong is what you claim in the above quote.

Yet you say it can be good.

Those two statements contradict each other. Makes no sense. It cant be a wrong understanding on my part and be good also.

And who saying that if you think it is AAA and turns out to be DSD that you have to be paddled and forced to buy anything? No one is saying for you to bend over. Dont buy them. Dont buy any digitally sourced vinyl that you feel you are being fooled into thinking it is AAA. No one is forcing you or anyone else to buy them. But dont try the shame game with those who do decide to continue with the company.

Ive never said "You guys are ingrates. Stop worrying about the price and DSD. Stop being silly, stupid people and go buy Mofi" Never implied one should. Or anything like that.

Very very early on in this discovery back in the Mofi One Step thread I was having a laugh about it. Mainly at myself and the gang of audiophiles like myself who were fooled. But I realized that was being taken the wrong way and to some it was very hurtful. That it was a much more serious situation to some than I realized. So I apologized to people like Tullman and others. And I tried very hard from then on to add a supportive stance towards those folks who are hurt by the Mofi deception bu adding empathy and sympathy from time to time in my posts my posts.

So I dont know why again you feel the need to explain something Ive already clearly stated I perfectly understand. It seems to me its more based upon a reaction to me posting the virtues of DSD in this thread than anything else. Which, mentioning DSD is VERY relative to the thread subject matter.


"Mobile Fidelity is just such a disappointment. I’m not simply going to put on blinders and surmise that because it sounds nice that it’s okay to be lied to and sold bogus products."

If Mofi is "such a disappointment" then by all means do not purchase them and please do sell any you have that they lied to you about. Dont let those dirty money Mofi's you spent gobs of money on sit in your collection. I support you in this. Get rid of any lie stained Mofi lps you have. Absolutely. I dont deny you to feel the way you do on this. I support you in fact. Absolutely not snark intended. Rid your collection of these filthy lies. And do not purchase them.

On the other hand, stop judging me and others by default as some morally bankrupt compromiser because others and I choose to care about one thing ultimately: sound improvement.

I can disagree with what they did and still be ok with going forward in my Mofi purchases. And so can others. Its not for you or anyone else to make a moral judgement against.



Now allow me to share why you arent as pure in integrity wise in this as you would like to think you are...

If you have been in this hobby for a long time, which I gues you have been, then you should realize that many pieces in your collection are tainted with a dubious past.

From spousal abusers who are some of the greatest songwriters ever, to theft of others material (look up the Graceland album controversy sometime), to artists that are just plain out and out scumbags. And on and on this "pure" biz operates. From the top to the bottom. There is one artists work I love and due to my beliefs spiritually do not agree with his stance as a person. Am I also a compromiser because of due to the later? Certainly would be considered that by my church. But I can bet you all the tea in Asia that you wouldnt call me a compromiser and would defend my stance on this with all you have.

My point?

You want to stand on your high horse with me and call me and those who purchase will continue to purchase Mofi lps compromisers, yet are down in the mud with the music industry yourself. We all are to some degree.

The very nature of the business dictates that for you. So before you go and judge me, Id suggest go cleaning the muck off your own self and maybe you can see clearly just how much hypocrisy you are shoveling out.

This is why trying to degrade someone ethically, character and integrity can be a very slippery slope you stand on.



We will see if this post actually stands or is taken down and me banned from the thread again for my rebutle to such nonesense as questioning my integrity over a record hobby. Or if you actually reapond to anything Ive stated.

 

Well, it worked great for the Crosby right? MoFaux figured out how to get that done, and it sounds so good I bought two copies. Not for flipping either. For playing. It sounds amazing.

 

I remember in the 80’s when albums stated proudly “a full digital recording” and DDD was a badge of honor. And the wheel turns…..

 

People used to think smoking was perfectly fine, too... Digital is like tobacco. It might seem pleasant for a while, but in the end it will kill you.

 

Digital is just another means.
In my classical world, digital does eliminate a lot of issues of analog, but neither has a better basic inherent sound.

I have dozens of recordings from the 60s and 70s, done originally on analog tape of course and now redone for CD and they mostly all sound fantastic. Many were on 1/2" 30 ips masters.

Pop rock would often use only 1/4" 15 ips tapes.

Going to show that HOW it was recorded and captured, matter far more than just analog or digital.

 

Yeah, Ill take my peeled cool looking Butcher cover over the studious nerdie looking trunk cover any day of the week. But I also have an unpeeled one, so Im covered coolness wise and historically

 

As a fellow Parks Puffin owner, technically every record you listen to has a digital step.

 

Then they should make a tape copy to cut from.

 

Playing mine now....
Still sounds great to me. Those ADRM's, analogue to digital to vinyl cuts nah, no need for them.

 

yeah, if it is going compromise your health or make you sick. I dont think anyones ears are bleeding.

 

So would a crappy pic of the Mona Lisa from a smartphone's camera.

What a terrible fundamentally flawed point.

 

Sounds great to me. Im all for as many archiving methods as possible to preserve the sound of the mastertapes.

 

No one would refinish a ‘30s Martin now, but they did back when they were just old guitars. Martin themselves did refins.

Partial or full restorations are done on old motorcycles and cars all the time.

A butcher cover’s more like an old baseball card to me, though I looked up the Livingston ones, and that’s a great story. Must be among the most expensive LPs ever.

 

Nobody is beating on Miles Showell since he was always up front as to how he used digital to cut half speed. As long as they are open about the process there is no problem. If you don't like there is digital or don't like the sound don't buy. At least most of these obvious digital LPs are not sold at Mo-Fi prices. There are even records being put out that are AAA and no mention of it, which confuses matters even more. I'm pretty confident that the labels that clearly state a record is all analogue are not using digital. Others leave room for confusion.

 

You are wrong on all of your points but I don't really care. Come back in 6 months and check the status MOFI....that was my only point

 

As someone who owns multiple original copies of the Pretenders’ debut album and the MoFi reissue, I would counter that your take on the merits of MoFi’s release of that album is not even close to mine.

 

The McCartney RAM half speed retail price was $35.98, not much different than MoFi's $29.99 (MFSL) or $39.99 (OMR) for a single 33RPM disc.

 

You should throw your turntable on the pyre as well. It’s tainted forever with the mark of the digital beast.

 

DDD the new 666?

 

Hey that's a great idea! I've actually been wanting to upgrade from my Clearaudio to a TechDAS Airforce. This sounds like an opportunity. Hallelujah! AAA has risen! Wash your audiophile souls clean! The fire will cleanse us. May we burn brightly. Maybe Jim Davis can Acolyte at the service... Who would the Cantor be?

 

So you are saying Mofi was okay in not detailing what they did??

I am confused.
You must care, to have replied to my post.

 

Being someone that actually owns a very nice copy of the actual album in question, I hate to say this, but it is for sure no paradigm of great sound to even begin with. It is cut at a low level, does not have great bass or even good bass, and sounds a bit lower in fidelity to most of my other stuff from that time period.