Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab has been cutting vinyl from digital since a long, long time ago...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ben Adams, Jul 14, 2022.

  1. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    The original UK pressing is very good. There were quite a lot of long albums in the late 70s and throughout the 80s that got a good cut with decent volume levels. Of course they won't match a 40 minute album, but they are much better than they should be. Along with The Pretenders I'm thinking of Iron Maiden albums, Queen's Greatest Hits and The Smiths - Hatful of Hollow. The Pretenders album isn't even all that long at 47 minutes, though it still is over the optimum.
     
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  2. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex, UK
    This particular point has been beat to death. We're all in agreement they misled people. It seems that no matter how often one states it, it keeps getting thrown up. 1111 pages in, and the conversation hasn't moved on... amazing......
     
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  3. Visual shine means a lot,its often due to spray can polish which locks dust in the groove and clogs up your stylus.
    Sadly Ive seen a dealer blatantly doing that,if I come across a record that is too shiny for its age,its condition does not match the label and it has a strong smell of a freshly polished dining table I will move on.
     
  4. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan A man who dreams he is a butterfly?

    I'm not certain what a European nation has to do with MoFaux? :chill: Surely you're not conflating a disagreement about a hobby with a terrible event in history? That would be classless and shameful...

     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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  5. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    No, it’s misleading. If you disregard intermediate steps, the source of virtually every recording made prior to 1980 is analog tape.

    Take an original UK master tape of Who’s Next. Make a copy in 1970 and send it to Japan so they can press albums. In 1985 use the Japan copy tape to manufacture the Japan CD. In 2010, sell the Japan CD on Ebay to a buyer in the US. In 2020, copy the CD and send the file to a friend. In 2022, play the file on computer speakers. If Intermediate steps are disregarded then the source would still be the original UK analog tape.

    Either there is no intermediate step or the phrase itself has no meaning.
     
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  6. playsFastForward

    playsFastForward just as long as he can

    Location:
    USA
    This is their defense for why the Original Master Recording banner applies in almost all cases.
     
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  7. DIYmusic

    DIYmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    hmmmmm..........

    I think that is the actual issue though. Those intermediate steps ARE what Mofi is trying to avoid to create an end result that has better fidelity.
    That is the whole reason they call them "Original Master Recordings"
    The usual way would be a copy of a copy and NOT the actual master tape
    An analog copy, usually will not sound quite as clear or clean or what have you. Often analog copies for production are NOT a top notch version.
    Often they are a narrow tape done at a lower speed, complicating the amount of loss.

    The whole reason "for" mofi was to get back to the ACTUAL master tape, as EVERY analog copy takes it another step further away from how it truly sounded, and add issues of playback azimuth angles and many other small factors into the equation.


    In the industry, a DSD copy of the ACTUAL master is considered identical to being the master. Some vinyl collectors started the whole, "It has to be only analog", but apparently are avoiding what creates the best possible fidelity. (IMHO)
     
  8. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member

    I understand about being upset about being lied to however your posts indicate that there are other issues and MOFI is being an excuse for such venting.
    They took your mofi’s back and are refunding your money. Such hatred is not healthy.
     
  9. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan A man who dreams he is a butterfly?

    There's no hatred Tommy... I just use sarcastic and dark humor a lot. :help: And no, I haven't received a dime back still. My wife hasn't tired of my constant snickering...yet. :laugh:

     
  10. spewey

    spewey Senior Member

    Location:
    Little Rock
    :D:D:D

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Randy Goldberg

    Randy Goldberg Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY
    Classless yes. Anyone burning books, records reminds me of either Germany, the nutjobs down south with Beatles and the nutjobs trying to take books out of schools these days. Shameful. Also the glee you takein all of this.
     
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  12. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan A man who dreams he is a butterfly?

    Oh that makes sense... :righton: I can see why it might seem that way. Unfortunately another member actually posted pictures of those dark parts of history. I'm just a harmless stoner in Colorado who has strange ideas. No books or Beatles will be harmed. Just one MoFaux title. It's a toss up between Carole King, Paul Simon and Muddy Waters. Whatever I can't return or sell.

     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
  13. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Thanks for the history lesson. Some members probably did not know the history of these ‘Butchers’, but of course any long time collector certainly did.
    Nonetheless, and unfortunately, this doesn’t really answer my question, which was how many ‘butcher’ albums are still out there, as it seems that there are still tens of thousands…and maybe even more still in existence. I ask this, as it seems to me that this LP really is not that rare at all, and that its continued demand still baffles me to a certain extent. I guess I have always pondered why someone would pay so much money for the thing and use it primarily as a place holder, with no intention to ever listen to it. Guess that is the nature of collecting to some folks.
     
  14. Then as I’ve said many times, they should be called analog-philes as audiophiles can love digital
     
  15. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Actually, I think it is not accurate to state that there are audiophiles who are solely into analog and as such will always discount a digital release, regardless of its SQ. I have not witnessed this, as all of the audiophiles I associate with are looking for the best SQ, and if that happens to be analog, then that is what they desire…but if that was digital…and that digital beat the same analog release for SQ, then digital it is!
     
  16. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan A man who dreams he is a butterfly?

    AAAnalog-philes :wave:

     
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  17. highfell

    highfell Forum Resident

    So tell me what happened in the original days when they pressed their first, second , third pressings from the real master (and didn’t have dsd) ? Didn’t they use analogue copies from those master and didn’t the records produced sound just fine ?

    Analogue copies must therefore be just fine to my mind
     
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  18. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I have no idea what MOFI was trying to accomplish. I am not arguing that DSD sourced vinyl sounds better or worse that vinyl that is cut directly from the tape without an intermediate digital step. I like their digital work - according to Discogs, I have 214 MOFI gold CD’s.

    But, I was responding to a post defending their prior advertising. In my view, their prior advertising was not just “unclear”. It was misleading. The phrase that MOFI had been using is the lacquer is sourced “directly” from the original master tape. If you can insert a digital transfer or a copy tape (or two) in the chain, the word “directly” would be rendered meaningless. That’s why it was misleading.

    I have no problem with the way they are describing their products now.
     
  19. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Let’s not get carried away. These aren’t nut jobs; there’s no insidious purpose, or dangerous undercurrent. I doubt they even understand your references to Germany or book burnings.

    You may not be used to this kind of behavior, but most of us who went to grade school in the US are. I’m sure most of us who went to public schools in the US have friends that did and still do things like this. Even as adults , you have guys who light their farts on fire for the purpose of impressing their friends on instagram. They think they’re hilarious so we try to remember to post those “laughing hysterically” emojis.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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  20. jlstrat

    jlstrat Senior Member

    I like many MoFi pressings, don't like a few. The Pretenders is one that sounds OK if cranked, but, yeah, overall I prefer my Sire Records copy I bought when the album came out. Same with the first Allmans LP and Costello's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th LPs. Sometimes MoFi just cleans up what made those records good. But those are mastering choices rather than any digital skullduggery. It's a difference in how I like to hear some music. It's not that MoFi makes a bad product. I love their Sinatra reissues and the Miles Davis reissues, the Rickie Lee Jones. But if it's a rock album that has any balls because the amps are cranked or the mastering engineer used compression or other techniques to give the album some force, then I think MoFi sometimes leans too far in the audiophile direction and robs the music of some of its anarchic power. The exception is the J. Geils LP, which sounds great but still has balls.
     
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  21. MonkeyMan

    MonkeyMan A man who dreams he is a butterfly?

    Well said... My good buddy got bad burns on his **** doing precisely what you mentioned. Even he insists it was worth it. He's a legit superhero in my book. :biglaugh:

     
  22. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    "Thanks for the history lesson" - OK that sounds sarcastic. I'm sorry. I thought you weren't aware of the history and was trying to be helpful.

    Yes, there are many in existence, maybe tens of thousands, and many more still hidden under trunk covers. I suspect most old collectors did not buy their butchers on the secondary market, but found them in used record shops or thrift stores. Most of us can remember the store we found them in and the price we paid. I found both of mine in the early 90's in Pearl City, Hawaii ($4) and in Hollywood ($30). I don't hear much about people finding them any more, but that's probably because I stopped hanging out in record stores 30+ years ago. But they are still out there (this is a youtuber who has found two butchers recently, she talks about it at 8:55 in the video). The nice thing about the butchers is that there are often in pretty good condition unlike most Beatles albums. One reason is that this album contained a song "Yesterday" that was popular with adults. So the album ended up being owned by adults who took better care of the album.

    So, if there are so many copies and more still hidden "in the wild", why are prices high? Well, there is great demand. Even though the butchers can be found in the wild in the US; overseas collectors have had to purchase them on the secondary market. I think that's one of the main reason - lots of Beatles fans worldwide, lots of demand.

    And your last question why would someone buy it without intention to listen to it. The butcher cover is not unusual in the Beatles collector market. In general, rarer Beatles LP jackets and picture sleeves tend to be valued independent of the accompanying record. So it would not be unusual to see rare picture sleeves being sold without the records if the records are simply common stock copies.

     
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  23. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    Perfectly good answer, and I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. What you state about the desirability of Beatles albums is also correct. I own a number of Beatles albums having collected them for decades, but I do not own a 'Butcher'. Primarily due to not wishing to spend the $$ to acquire one on the secondary market, not having found one in my hunts and not personally valuing it that much. Anyhow back to the topic at hand, which seems to have cemented into two camps, 0ne-- Yes, MoFi lied and that is more or less ok ( since others are doing the same thing, or they haven't really hurt anyone with their lies), and the digital step is irrelevant so long as the SQ is good...and two-- MoFi lied and they deserve everything they get and the digital step is an issue for their consumers going forward. ( I am in camp 2). Onwards..:wtf:
     
  24. DIYmusic

    DIYmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania

    Sure they sounded good and often great at times.
    But "often" you were getting a 3rd generation analog narrow tape at a fairly low speed.


    Mofi (and others) were going back to the actual master and using that instead of some Vinyl production master that was Eqed for the limitations of vinyl and often a 2nd or 3rd generation from the actual master.

    That was the whole reason for Mofi and others. There were often too many analog generations and subsequent sound losses.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2022
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  25. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    They'll all sell though, no problem whatsoever, if they don't you're asking too much for them. I'm sure you can get enough to buy some good smoke instead of letting good music go up in smoke.
     
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