Mobile Fidelity Ultradisc One Step of SANTANA, BILL EVANS TRIO, etc.*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Drew769, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. ETSEQ

    ETSEQ Forum Resident

    Location:
    Frederick, MD
    I agree the gravy train of the ultra-expensive records is going to stall at some point, perhaps pretty soon. My personal suspicion is that a significant portion of this market is sustained by flippers (they help the labels clear out all the stock quickly, this adds to the scarcity and FOMO, which makes people more likely to pay crazy after market prices, leading to higher demand for these records at the (still expensive) retail prices. I suspect the bottom will fall out of the flipper market first, which could be the first sign of overall demand dropping for these types of releases. We will see.

    It's hard to tell exactly how that will end up affecting a company like MoFi, but your point about how they are "positioned" is interesting. I wonder if the trend of Concord and Universal doing their own audiophile releases (sometimes involving Chad and AP in a curation/oversight role) means it's going to get harder and harder for MoFi to get licenses for "regular" releases. It's probably a lot easier to get licenses for the ultra-expensive records, but if that ends up being all or the vast majority of what MoFi is able to release, that could be a problem indeed. Again, we will see.
     
  2. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Yup, I admit. I'm judgemental. Guilty as charged.

    Upgrading pressings of records? Fantastic.

    Sheer greed? Not so much. Unfettered, unmoderated capitalism? That causes problems.
     
  3. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    True and I did mention in another thread that it is possible AP has researched this extensively and concluded that they can make around the same amount of profit with far less work by merely focusing on higher-tiered priced titles.

    To me, that's merely a company that's supporting an existing product. Like Nintendo continuing to make more of the same game consoles that came out 6 years ago.

    I'm willing to accept I'm in the minority; new reissues are all I personally am interested in as old ones can usually be acquired via stores like Acoustic Sounds, eBay, Discogs, etc.

    MFSL, in terms of output of new releases, offers only a few releases per year. I sure wish they'd release far more.

    The market has never been healthier so it's a bit odd to me that there's far more of a tendency of shying away from new projects.
     
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  4. Twinsfan007

    Twinsfan007 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Man I really wish/hope they do Sinatra at the Sands as a 1Step release :)
     
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  5. bruinuclafan

    bruinuclafan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    All good points. I also have to believe that Chad having a pressing plant gives him much more flexibility when he negotiated these deals. As you say, we will see what happens in the next few years.
     
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  6. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Actually when your business caters to the affluent demographic your less affected by economic downturns. Your kind of recession, inflation proof because it really doesn't affect them much at all, or at least doesn't stop them from changing their spending habits.

    In this thread we are seeing the first that will bail on buying one steps, the people who probably shouldn't have been buying them in the first place. The one steps were targeting a demographic in the first place, it's just every tom dick and harry decided to jump on the bandwagon. The only reason they did was they see buying them might yield no loss and can sell if need be when they need money. If buying a $125 - $150 is no different than buying a $25 record to you then your in the right demographic. If you have to do without other records and things saving up to buy 1 one step, your not the target demographic. I would also add that if a couple one steps cost more than your vinyl playback system, you were never part of the target demographic.

    When the one step came out in 2015 for $90, and #1500 copies most people said they are crazy for doing this. Most said they would never spend that much on a new record, and never will. However the ones that did, did it because spending that much was no big deal to them. After people started to see these one steps sell for considerably more in the second hand market, it brought more people into buying them. It will be these people who will start selling their expensive records to make ends meet in the days to come. New record prices will either stay the same or even go up.

    Will this push people out of buying records? I really don't think so but it will make people reevaluate what they do buy, and for how much.
     
  7. Recordguy

    Recordguy Forum Resident

    This is what every record retailer in the world does. So the question is, how many records do you have to resell in a month to make yourself accepted with this behavior. Obviously, if it’s in the hundreds it’s ok, but if it’s 1-10 it is not. Where’s the line? Asking for a friend.
     
  8. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I'm not sure about "No big deal" when these OneSteps came out. For me, anyway. I'm on a somewhat limited budget with regard to discretionary stuff. I appreciate what better equipment and better masterings/pressings can offer, a greater, more visceral, meaningful experience with the music. If money were no big deal, I'd have a better cartridge than I have, a bigger house (I live in a 2BR condo) with a bigger listening room, and I'd buy every release out there. But at this point, I probably have about half of the OneStep releases. I've sold one so far to help finance my new amp (when the other one died).

    So don't assume that only the extreme wealthy are buying these. I'm not poor, but I have to make priorities.
     
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  9. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    If you're buying them for your own personal pleasure, even if that pleasure may have to wait until you can get around to it, I don't think anyone has a problem with that.

    It's those who buy multiple copies to hoard for the purpose of speculating. While those people might have the money to speculate, some people just want to get a great copy of a record to listen to. For every person who buys 10 copies of a record to hoard, there are 9 other individuals who won't be able to buy it at retail price.
     
  10. bruinuclafan

    bruinuclafan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    If these were still limited to 1k or 2k copies I would be more inclined to take your side on this. But at 10k I have my doubts. Maybe with the way they do distribution it’s local record stores that end up holding the bag, but I’m not really sure. We’ll see in any case.
     
  11. SpinIt

    SpinIt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    Well. I suspect that they might be using it as international customer repellent. Any new international customer in their right mind will say no thanks to the advertised shipping rates. I mean, they now advertise the following shipping rates for normal, non One Step records to the EU, with no option to select FedEx or DHL.
    • 1 record $169.84
    • 5 records $311
    • 10 records $339
    Seriously, it’s outrageous and illogical to me. I can only imagine they are doing it on purpose to get fewer international customers. And if that is not the reason, they negotiated a horrible deal with UPS forbidding them to advertise their previous Fedex rates at checkout. In any case, not advertising these FedEx rates at checkout is either because they are stupid, or because they do it in purpose. /rant
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
    Munger74 likes this.
  12. Retailers buy new records at wholesale prices and usually turn over product at normal retail list prices. Flippers buy multiple copies, sometimes sitting in for awhile for the sole purpose to resell at multiple times the list price.

    Definitely not illegal but some of us find it distasteful. Obviously people sell records they’ve enjoyed for years and later decide to sell at the prevailing market rate. I have no problem with that.
     
  13. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    It'd be nice if the topic of who's buying what and for what purpose would never be revisited in this thread. Every 10 pages, the same arguments are made. Neither side will change someone else's mind so there's no benefit to any of it, IMHO.

    Let's just talk about the releases, MFSL and/or One-Step in general, I say.
     
  14. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I think that the secondary market for many of the recent One Steps is relatively soft. There don't seem to be that many buyers for BS&T, Couldn't Stand the Weather, Pearl, Tapestry, Still Crazy After All These Years and Folk Singer. These were issued in large quantities (6000 - 10,000 copies) and many were the subject of prior audiophile reissues. I doubt that "flippers" have made much money buying doubles of any of these recent titles. On the other hand, demand for Mingus Ah Um seems very high.

    I think that going forward, the popularity of One Steps in the secondary markets (and thus the appeal for "flippers) will depend on the individual title, and how many copies are pressed. For example, Diver Down doesn't seem like a logical choice for a One Step, but if they only print 3000 copies, it could still be a hot item. So if there is a title you are interested in, I would pay attention to the number being pressed.
     
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  15. mpayan

    mpayan Forum Resident

    In The Wee Small Hours for me
     
  16. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Still the same thing, both are selling for a profit, your so called flipper also paid more for the records than the retailer did at wholesale. They also helped the store because they bought more records than a normal buyer. They also helped their city and state with the taxes they paid buying them, and in resale in many cases.

    I just think people like to complain, complain about anything really. It's nothing more than butt hurt in most cases, that they just can't have everything they want, when they want it, at the prices they want it.

    I'm sure will see a video from you on this soon?

    I have to laugh at all the videos I see of so called influencers just bringing knowledge they gained from gleaning on sites like this. Of course when one is a narcissist they need a constant feeding of topics to bring to a channel of theirs, like they thought of it out of the blue.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  17. Swordsandchains

    Swordsandchains I have come here to chew bubblegum…

    Location:
    Chicago
    Now youre just pulling apples, oranges, and bananas out of this.

    target is definitely my favorite collector of various fruits and veggies.
     
    CBackley likes this.
  18. Wreckords

    Wreckords Well-Known Member

    Location:
    FL
    I understand that MOFI is targeting affluent customers, but I am really not sure there is enough market to target 10k for all of these titles. But maybe this just helps to take away the flippers market. I think they would do better releasing more of the standard super vinyl. I personally like having the standard jacket and was blown away by el dorado and David Crosby.

    The one thing Mofi has going for them (which I personally hate) is they have no commitments to any of these one steps. They could easily just cancel a release if it doesn’t preorder well or just push it back a couple years. It seems like they are only planing on maybe releasing 6 titles this year (MW, Clapton, 2x eagles, Alan parson 33 rpm, bitches brew) . I think CSN has been available for preorder for like 2 years and still not eta. I am guessing we won’t see Van Halen for like 2-3 years.

    I think that acoustic sounds is in a better position to succeed. I like how they are partnering with other labels. This may make it easier for them to get certain releases. Also makes it easier that they have their own pressing plant so they can prioritize their own releases.
     
  19. Yikes. We all get ideas from everything be read watch experience and see in life. I’ve gotten three or four ideas from these threads but many more from almost sixty years of musical enjoyment and related life experiences.

    Some I share, discuss, debate and learn from on these threads. For me personally the video presentations allow me to showcase my collection and share the music that has brought me so much joy through the decades. The personal stories and early music biz history (and San Francisco scene) seem to resonate with many who have similar experiences, but from different places and times . Also my so called snark and self deprecating humor seems to work better visually…. At least for some.

    Only a very few rants are inspired by comments here. The Hoffman Music Forums are ripe with material to inspire ideas. But I limit using much material from these pages.

    But some of the stuff here is priceless.
     
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  20. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    @Mazzy, I love your videos. Just sayin.


    @4-2-7 I dream of browsing your record collection. It sounds heavenly.


    It’s group hug time.
     
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  21. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    LOL, don't think I can hug people who are arrogant and try to belittle and shame people online that think they walk a higher moral and knowledge ground.

    If you were local to me, you'd be invited over just like I do with others all the time to meet in person and share the passion. Many like coming over and shop through my records as I'll have more selections of old records than a record store. As well as many OOP of the newer variety that are no longer in stores anymore.

    The way I am with records, nothing has to only be mine, I share and could care less if I don't have something. If someone else wants my only copy of something they can have it at a fair price and sometimes as a gift or trades. But what's important to me is they get music they love, or even turn them onto something new to them.
     
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  22. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored


    My sister-in-law and her family live in SF. I’ll let you know next time I visit! :pineapple:
     
    4-2-7 likes this.
  23. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Ohio
    The thing you are missing, though, is the repressing of titles. You have condemned AP to “being on life support”, while they have been repressing countless records. They are repressing the 50 Prestige titles, as well as Lynyrd Skynyrd, Brubeck, Ellington, Miles Davis, etc, etc. Oh AND they are collaborating with Verve/Impulse and Contemporary and doing entire series there. To say that is “life support” is laughable. AP/AS/QRP, just had their biggest year ever and are positioned to do even better in 2022. They are doing so well that they are expanding - the complete opposite of life support. Do you really think they’d be doing better in your mind if they just pumped out a bunch of mediocre, undesirable titles for the sake of “new release” numbers, vs repressing albums that are complete classics? Sorry, but I’d rather see these timeless records kept in print than to see a company like VMP pump out titles from Reba McEntire and Sam Hunt. Quality over quantity IMO.
     
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  24. mpayan

    mpayan Forum Resident

    Chad and company on life support? hmm, yeah I dont think so. Dudes doing better than he ever has. He is a happy camper audiophile company owner about now.
     
  25. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Unless the retailer is the In Groove, where they flip $100 records for $1k… and then out of the other side of their mouth condemn ERC all over youtube for selling records for too much money.
     
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