Modern DACs have become the AV receiver equivalent. (More DAC talk)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Tone?, Mar 18, 2023.

  1. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco

    I’ll believe it once I see it.
    They said that about their anniversary editions and still they weren’t true NOS.
     
  2. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    yeah EC modulators and all.
    It is a different sound , no question , but it lacks the depth and weight of PCM.
    To me at least.
    It does sound bigger and ‘ fuzzier’.
     
  3. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Senior Member

    A decade or so back, I wanted an amp that gave me the functionality and connectivity I needed due to the number of sources and codecs I'd begun accessing music through.

    I auditioned a few amps back then - Harman HK990, Exposure 2010s, Leema Pulse but in the end went with an Onkyo TX-NR818.

    The Onkyo had DSD, internet radio, all the then main audio codecs aside from DSD, a good tuner, a decent phono stage and - as I was using it in stereo only mode - 120wpc with a decent damping factor. £1000. I got it for a hefty discount, but in truth, it was a fantastic amp. The Exposure was a fine looking thing, as was the Leema - minimalist loveliness you can't fault. The Harman was a tad less impressive - build quality was excellent, a hefty old thing harking back to the muscle amps of the 70s, but seemingly had reliability issues - it ran hot from memory and had onboard fans. Weighed a ton too from memory!

    So, I think the references to "DACs are the AVRs" - well, that's maybe no bad thing. I had one AVR which acquitted itself well in stereo mode and delivered everything I needed, well, and better than several of the stereo integrateds of the day.

    These days, I use a Cambridge Audio DACMagic 200M - which, funnily, comes with DSD, MQA and all the rest. It's almost like an AVR of a decade ago and works - and plays - very well.
     
    Dirty Bertie likes this.
  4. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    I spent the evening listening to Sinc-Mx. I might be over the DSD thing. My previous DAC had enough self noise that it masked the HQP modulator noise. The previous unit did sound great with the DSD feed but I may have started a new chapter of R2R PCM, again.
     
    Tone? likes this.
  5. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The Holo Audio DACs can do either DSD or PCM. So you're good either way you decide to go.
     
  6. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco

    It’s definitely a different sound.
    But it sounds a bit like distortion to me.
    It’s softer for sure than PCM and has less depth, but it’s a bit bigger.
     
  7. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    :confused: :laughup:
     
    Tone? likes this.
  8. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco

    I’m the DAC man

    lol
     
    timind and Classic Car Guy like this.
  9. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch the Face of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Just messing... Wish I can help. I don't know much on that department.
    There is one thing that I made change besides listening 5 to 10% on digital. I have a node 2i with a built in DAC. It works but I wont use it as a playback for my analog recordings. Since when I bought the Motu M4 wired interface, that's been my playback (for that purpose) since and use it for "home hi fi"playback to reel mastering if I ever have to touch digital. I'm sure that there are others way better. But the sound of the node 2i and motu is light years difference. Other than this I have no use for DAC because 95% of music source and listening are all old school analog.
    Good luck on the search.:righton:
     
    Tone? likes this.
  10. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Thanks man.

    I’m gonna need it !
    Lol
     
  11. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    Funny thing is I went into it expecting better things from the DSD section. Before hearing it I had a built in bias against the PCM section thinking it was superfluous to the unit.

    The DSD section is better than my previous DAC. Better enough that I think I hear the distortion in the DSD conversion. What happens when your expectation bias is broken? Throw it out and start over. Does one need to get to DSD512 to move the noise out if the audio band? Maybe that is the magic that PS Audio found and why they go 10x or 20x DSD. Not sure I'll know that answer anytime soon. Without the ability to go that high with DSD I may be a PCM convert.
     
  12. fcdvpds

    fcdvpds Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I have tried quite a few DACs in the last years and end up coming back to my lovely MHDT Atlantis that I purchased in 2017. The only dac that could have made me depart form the Atlantis was the Audio Note Dac 1 Signature.
     
  13. rodentdog

    rodentdog Senior Member

    Well over 95% of all music ever recorded is PCM.
     
    Tone? likes this.
  14. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I don’t know about R2R
    It seems to be the new ‘ flavor of the month’ and influencers everywhere promote it.

    btw maybe I’m wrong about R2R. Since I only tried one and didn’t like it.
     
  15. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Which one did you try?
     
  16. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Venus II

    honestly I think R2R is being super ‘ peddled’ especially from headphone users , and is the new ‘ old’ tech.

    i may be wrong
     
  17. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Hmmm, I’ve not had the opportunity to check out the Denafrips line of products. Was ready to try a Terminator once but was advised against it and I trusted the opinion. I’ve read various posts stating these DAC’s are “not really NOS” even though they are resistor ladder implementations- is this true? Was this the dac you called pipe and slippers?
     
  18. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Yeah they aren’t true NOS

    and yes the Venus II is their second from the top of the line DACs.
     
  19. Jimbo1960

    Jimbo1960 Forum Resident

    I just purchased a used Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC. It only has NOS, no oversampling unless you use software. The Holo Audio DACs, like the Denafrips, are in such demand, you can buy one and if you don't like it, you can get most of your money back on it. I have not played with oversampling yet. I have JRiver Media center 30.

    I could not be happier with the Spring. I have bought so many 'upgrades' over the years that turned out to be a dissappoint. In my 40 years of chasing better sound, this is the single most satisfying purchase I've made.
     
    adamos and Ham Sandwich like this.
  20. Pata

    Pata Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    I would say most of the music recorded is analog, can be digitalized both ways…regarding digital recordings most pcm, agree
     
    jfeldt likes this.
  21. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    Modern studio recordings are going to be recorded in PCM. But for things like classical there are a lot (relatively) being recorded in high rate DSD. You can go to sites like NativeDSD to find recordings that were done in DSD. Most are going to be live acoustic style recordings by audiophile labels and a lot of classical music. If you want a PCM FLAC version of those recordings it has been converted from DSD or DXD to PCM.
     
  22. Designsfx

    Designsfx Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Ham-
    Do you purchase titles from Native DSD? If so- how did you like the quality of the presentation?
     

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