Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed Original Mix question

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Gorilla, Sep 23, 2007.

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  1. So, Steve prefers the remix w/o the "murk and goosh"? Now I've heard everything! (laughing).

    I always disliked how dry the later mix is.
    The guitar duel on "Peak Hour" has a lot more kick on the original mix.
    Overall, I prefer the keyboard's tonality on the original.
    That the band was largely mixed to mono with the orchestra in stereo
    around it seemed intentional, part of the artistic statement . . .
    that they were "bigger than a rock band", see?
     
  2. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    My favorite moment on the LP. Ruined in the remix.
     
  3. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    This is what I most object to in the remix & what I mean when I say that they took a classically-influenced rock LP & turned it into a rock-influenced classical LP. The remix totally de-emphasizes The Moodies in favor of Peter Knight.
     
  4. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    The Endless Enigma, Pt. 1.:D
     
  5. bhazen

    bhazen Magical Mystery Tourist

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    I am going to listen to the original mix tonight, with your listening experience in mind.
     
  6. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    My biggest problem is the missing harmonies on "Time To Get Away." I don't know how anyone can get past that. It completely changes the song. The way John Lodge jumps up to the harmony in the chorus sounds ridiculous (even more so if you were used to hearing the harmonies).
     
  7. dprokopy

    dprokopy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    I have to wonder if that harmony was added during the (original) mix, straight to the master, and probably doesn't exist on the multitrack anywhere. That would go a long way in explaining why it doesn't appear both on the Quad mix and the stereo remix.
     
  8. bhazen

    bhazen Magical Mystery Tourist

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    That sounds more than plausible, given the tracks available at Decca at the time. I'm gonna give it the headphones microscopy tonight (I'm particularly interested in observations made here about how loud the band elements are, vs. the symphonic), perhaps I shall pontificate at length later if an idea seizes me.
     
  9. dprokopy

    dprokopy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    And I'm correct in assuming there was never a dedicated mono mix for the entire album, right? The whole point of the album being to show off the super-fantabulous "Deramic Sound System" and whatnot. Was there ever a (fold-down) mono release of the album? It would seem strange that in 1967 that this would have been a stereo-only release.
     
  10. bhazen

    bhazen Magical Mystery Tourist

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    When I was doing my search for a clean "orginal"-mix LP to needle-drop, I never saw one mono version. And I went through dozens.
     
  11. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    Here are some direct quotes from Tony Clarke (taken from the Mike Pinder forum):

    "Yes the early albums were available in mono but that was common practice in those days.

    However, my ambition for the Moody Blues sound was always stereo. We would obviously press the mono comparison switch to check for phasing and cancellation, but honestly we only mixed those masters once stereo.

    As for the Deramic sound system, I think it was more of a sales and marketing thing, Yvonne is right about 'Day' promoting DSS but that was just an excuse to get into the studio for three whole weeks - something unheard of at the time."

    "I don’t think we mixed anything in mono,the dj copies were probably pinched by the promotion department however "Nights in white satin" was recorded and released as a single some time before Days of future passed and the orchestra was added on the DOFP sessions."

    "In those days we did'nt know about " back-catalogue or "tape life" It was a miracle to be recording and having a hit! We only thought about the next one "you're only as good as the next album" said the head of A&R .

    Anyway the master tape of "DAY'S" wore- out and It was decided to re- mix it for the CD release Derek Varnals re-created it however certain "artifacts"were slightly different and you "Forensic-Audiologists"
    have found the evidence to put him away for a very long time!

    Seriously Derek did a great job It was wonderfull for me all fired up at the birth of DOFP But to re-visit it years later can't have been easy."
     
  12. bhazen

    bhazen Magical Mystery Tourist

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    I presume when he mentions "evidence" he means the missing backing vocals from "Evening".
     
  13. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    The original poster asked him specifically about the differences in "Time To Get Away" and "Twilight Time," but unfortunately Tony doesn't really explain anything. It's interesting to note that he says that DOFP was remixed for CD release.
     
  14. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    I just listened to my mint bell sound copy with the hand etched zal.. matrix. I've got to say it sounded like an 8 bit digital transfer, I could barely make it through. I'll have to dig out my Holland copy and see which mix is on it.
     
  15. bhazen

    bhazen Magical Mystery Tourist

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    Notes After A Critical Listening Session

    Another difference noted is the much louder piano doubling the sweeping Mellotron/strings line (Bb-D-G, F-A-G, Bb-D-E, Bb-E-D) in "Sunset"...

    I do like the more enigmatic, Midsummer Night's Dream quality to the '67 mix. And the additional vocals in "Evening" really do improve that already stellar track. But when I put on my '90 Deram CD immediately after, I saw that there was no way I could have the '67 as my "main" DOFP disc. The remix sweeps several layers of cobwebs and (yes) murk away, letting one (for example) hear clearly the 12-string guitar in "Evening"* (in fact I can see how, on some systems, the remix could sound bright). In the original mix, nearly everything on the band track sounds like a blanket has been thrown over - almost like the dreaded NoNoise applied too enthusiastically. If anything, this mix lessens the band's presence in the show vs. the orchestra. Of course, YMMV depending on the state of the LP you're needle-dropping from, and the setup and quality of your 'table, cartridge, phono pre, etc.


    *Have you noticed that this arpeggiated riff recurs several times in prog-rock over the next few years? Two examples I can think of: Robert Fripp in "Court Of The Crimson King", Greg Lake in "The Sage".
     
  16. DaleH

    DaleH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southeast
    Ok, I've verified that my Holland copy is the original mix. The fidelity on this one is closer to the MFSL than the Bell Sound. I was wondering what you guys were talking about because that bell sound sounds terrible. I'll have to put this in my rotation, the MFSL may be my most listened to record ever. I didn't even know there was a re-mix done before I heard it here a while back.
     
  17. Looks like the Aussie LP I have is made with US stampers, mine has ZAL in the deadwax too. The sound is pretty bad :sigh:
     
  18. fortherecord

    fortherecord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    I was listening to Twilight Time tonight, switching between the original album mix and the remix. The remix sounds almost like a completely different take. I like the original mix so much better. The remix has the vocals buried and all the instruments turned up, it just doesn't work. It ruins a great song. I always wondered why the CD didn't sound right to me.
     
  19. bhazen

    bhazen Magical Mystery Tourist

    Location:
    Newcastle, WA
    What I'd like, upon considered reflection, is a new mix from the original 4-tracks; with the murk removed, but the original ambience preserved.

    Jeeves, make it so!! ;)
     
  20. fortherecord

    fortherecord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    Is your RCA record club an early version on thick vinyl and glossy label with stamped matrixes in the run out groove or a later one with thin vinyl and flat label?
     
  21. It'll be an underdub with digital echo and the treble turned all the way up,
    maybe even brickwalled (when they master it).
    Forget this idea as it is doomed to artistically fail.
     
  22. Great Deceiver

    Great Deceiver Active Member

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I tried to find it on the forum through the search engine but it didn't work. I think Steve Hoffman said something to the effect that the mono mix of DOFP isn't a fold down and that it only began to be a fold down for ISOTLC. Does anyone else remember this?

     
  23. audiodrome

    audiodrome Senior Member

    Location:
    North Of Boston
    In all of the comments I've read, Tony Clarke has been pretty adamant about the fact that he never mixed any of the MB albums for mono. If there is a true mono mix of DOFP, maybe someone else did it?
     
  24. tspit74

    tspit74 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Woodridge, IL, USA
    I'll have to check (I'm at work now). I would assume it's from the early 70's or so, but I'll double check. The black printing on the back looks very crude, almost bootleg-like.

    What's the difference BTW?
     
  25. Ray7027

    Ray7027 Forum Resident

    Location:
    pennsylvania
    I have a mono copy and some parts sound like a fold down, but some do sound like a dedicated mono mix. I'm still not sure
     
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