Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Houston_Music_Fan, Apr 16, 2018.
They let Laine speak but not Pinder? Inexcusable.
This has been discussed at length on the Moody Blues album thread.
There is nothing “inexcusable” if the implication that this occurred with malice.
It was not.
As in all speculation, the best guess is this is “health” related.
My opinion is that the confusion could have been mitigated if one person spoke for the group, which would have mitigated individual approaches to the mic.
- note that John shows Mike where to stand, Graeme, Justin and Denny each in turn embrace Mike and John overall takes charge
I get the impression they very much wanted Mike to be there with them but not to possibly embarress himself if Mike is not in the best of health now
we know Ray said that Mike was 'getting a bit forgetful' back in 2014 and I get the impression here Mike seems a little bemused by it all, so if that is the case I can fully understand the guys protecting Mike here
I get the impression they each are 'comforting' Mike in turn here
curious how Graeme just walks off tho' leaving Justin and John to try to end the speeches...tho' by then the microphone has been turned off !
I think this is overstepping if it was not Mike's choice to forgo a speech.
I see everyone's point now. Perhaps the other Moodies were protecting Mike. If so, that is touching, though of course sad. But I'd rather be sad in this case than upset, as I was when I felt Mike had been snubbed.
However, I must also note regarding the health issue that Mike was quoted extensively in a recent Rolling Stone article, and didn't he also give interviews for the new Marc Cushman book on the Moodies? Just more food for thought since may are questioning his current state of health.
Agreed. This would be a sensible way to handle things if there was something health related.
Pretty hard to assess what was going on as there was some interaction on stage between Mike and the others. The "mic block" came off as pretty strange, as did the fact they left him alone on the stage at the end. If there was some health issue, it seems like one of them would have shadowed him off the stage.
There definitely would have been better options to handle this if there was some health issue involved. If there wasn't, the whole thing was pretty shameful...
Denny didn't get a chance to perform with the Moodies which is a shame IMO.
If Pinder isn't in condition to perform, there wouldn't have really been much of a point. Edge was the only other member from that lineup onstage, and he's so bad I'm not even sure his drum mics are turned on.
True, but aside from Graeme who doesn't really play these days, he wouldn't have been playing with anyone he originally had.
The theory about Mike's Health being in such a condition that he needs help from embarrassing himself seems like wild speculation considering there's been no report of such health condition publicly. I Unless somebody in here has insider information.
Having viewed the clip, either speculation could be true, but the body language suggests that Mike was essentially restrained from speaking. John actually ran interference as he started to approach the microphone before JH spoke.
Health reasons? Perhaps, but he looked pretty together on stage, conversing pleasantly with Graham Edge and Denny off to the side. If he's struggling with issues of dementia, it sure didn't come across on stage. He seemed alert and focused, but I suppose appearances can be deceiving. His failure to perform will be fodder for speculation. Was it because he is no longer capable of performing MB songs live ...or issues resulting from a long standing grudge.
Having Mike and Denny on stage was obviously the best move for any legitimate award presentation of the group's legacy, but the discomforting optics of what happened raises more questions than it answers.
I didn't expect him to perform but it would have been great to hear him say something/anything, if only a simple Thank you.
As others have noted, it's impossible to form a strong opinion based on Mike's body language at the beginning. John has been running the show for some time. He was the only member not in a coma when I saw them last summer.
I saw it. I couldn't believe it....and then again, I can.
A simply disgusting move, and until clarified otherwise by the band, it's pretty pathetic.
Damn, I wish Moraz had been inducted so Lodge would have trouble running double interference.
It was pointed out in another thread (album thread) that a member of the Pinder family thanked the other Moodies for their conduct at the induction.
There was no malice.
I stated before that we are just observers with insufficent information.
My only comment is that one person should have been designated to speak for the group which would have averted what occurred.
I'd read elsewhere that Pinder may have some memory related illness that prevents him from speaking or playing.
But that's not how those things go generally. Generally, everybody gets a chance to speak, even if it's just to say thanks. And the fans, I'm sure, want to hear from everybody. However, I'm sure it's not the first time someone being inducted was on stage and did not speak.
Mike and even Ray have now spoken, via their wives each posting statements.
Message from Mike's wife (Mike's words):
"The rock hall of fame people were wonderful. The ceremony was too long and
the sound too loud for the room but there were moments of great interest.
For the Moody families it was the opportunity to share in several days of
love, past memories and making new memories for our families. All the band
brought their children and grandchildren and that was magic. The
grandchildren got to see that the music has remained relevant and impactful
for 50 years.
Many MB fans have asked why I did not speak at the induction but by the
time the Moodies took the stage we were 5 hours into the ceremony. The
oldest of the inductees were up the latest. The speeches were a bit
anti-climatic at that point and it was only fitting that the current
touring members spoke first. I am happy that we finally got inducted for
our fans sake. As I have said for the last 30 years the fans are my hall of
Message from Ray's wife:
"When Ray was called in December to let him know the Moody Blues would be inducted into the HOF he told them he
would not be able to attend because he couldn't fly that far. He also told
them he would like John to accept his award for him. Then he spoke to Mike
about this honor and they both agreed that the honor belonged to the fans
that had supported them all these years. Then Ray spoke to John and ask him
if he would except his award and he would write a few lines for John to
read. John, being the good mate he has always been to Ray said absolutely
he would do that for Ray. True to his word John went to the HOF with the
words written by Ray to accept Ray's award and read the words. If you have
seen the tapes of the induction ceremony you will know that John and Justin
both went to the microphone to say something about Ray and John would read
Ray's words but the sound was abruptly shut off. I would like to complete
that for Ray. This is what John would have read if he had been able.
"The fans have done us proud. This (night) has come about because of their
tireless efforts and belief in the band and the music. I'm very, very
grateful and always a little surprised that our music seems to be a little
timeless. It's something you always hope for when you are recording songs
but never expect to happen. It's really rather humbling to touch that many
people in different generations. There were always 5 of us in both Moodies
who experienced this roller coaster ride together. I played and toured from
1964 until 2002, so I have years of great memories. I had a good run,
played with the best band to the greatest audiences, a man can't ask for
more than that, except to say thank you to the fans who made it possible."
Ray Thomas - December 2017"
Was Clint Warwick inducted too ? No-one's mentioned him. Graham Nash mentioned Don Rathbone when The Hollies were inducted which was a classy touch.
Quite a few people seem to be questioning Denny Laine's appearance/short speech (which was funny and generous) when Mike Pinder didn't speak. As has been said, despite the way things looked, that was apparently Mike's choice.
As for Denny, I'm probably in a tiny minority but when I think of The Moody Blues I think of Go Now and Days Of Future Passed. I hope Clint got posthumous recognition at the Hall Of Fame. If Denny hadn't have been inducted, that would have been a bit like Syd Barrett not getting inducted with Pink Floyd, perhaps, and no reason Clint shouldn't be included as he was in the band for their first stretch with Denny.
No sadly the late Clint Warwick has been overlooked despite his service from 1964-66 and appearing on their only UK no.1 record 'Go Now' several other UK chart hit singles, plus their debut album 'The Magnificent Moodies' in 1965
- much like original Deep Purple bass player Nic Simper was (despite also being one of Johnny Kidd's last Pirates and surviving the car crash that killed JK in late 1966) - Simper was on their first album 'Shades of...' but was snubbed by the HOF even tho' original Purple lead vocalist Rod Evans was inducted alongside Blackmore, Gillan, Paice, Glover etc...
The late Clint Warwick and Patrick Moraz (on four 80's Moody Blues chart studio albums, one a USA no.1, plus a handful of 80's era USA / UK chart hit singles and a couple of live album sets, and many tour concerts from 1978 to 1991) both fully also deserved induction as Moodies alongside the six members the HOF allowed
re The Hollies yes Graham Nash generously remembered original Hollies drummer Don Rathbone (who played drums on their first two UK chart hits in 1963)
.....but no one bothered to mention their 1972-73 era Swedish lead singer / guitarist/ bassist/ keyboardist/ harp player Mike Rickfors who sang on their 1972 UK chart hit 'The Baby' plus overseas chart hit 'Magic Woman Touch' and two Hollies albums; 'Romany' (1972 - which made the USA albums chart) and 'Out On The Road' (1973)
plenty of latter day Chicago members were overlooked too despite several appearing on a number of albums and even on chart topping singles - figures such as lead vocalists Donnie Dacus, Bill Champlin, Jason Scheff etc
curious the 'politic' of that HOF re who is and who is not to be mentioned as part of a group's history...the attitude seems to be slanted towards original members but sometimes a few like Warwick, Simper etc get 'forgotten' - with long running bands whose careers can span decades it's only to be expected members will come and go for many reasons
imagine if say Jethro Tull ever were belatedly inducted - how many members would be 'forgotten' or deemed to be unimportant enough to deserve induction - and WHO has the God like power to decree that anyway ??
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