Muffled records phenomena

I agree with the notion that these are simply two poorly recorded albums. That Rainbow album is a fine album musically, but sonically, it’s an absolute joke. There’s no low end on it whatsoever. You won’t find a pressing that has any either...it was just produced and recorded that way. Thank you, Martin Birch.

The Genesis-Foxtrot album...well it’s almost the opposite problem. It’s very dark and somewhat muffled. I probably have 10 vinyl pressings of it, and 3 or 4 CD’s. None of them are audiophile sound. Boatloads of overdubs and mixed on monitors that were on the bright side, I’m guessing. It’s always best to start with the earliest pressing you can get/afford IMO....before people starting “fixing” things.

 

Just updating on Genesis here.

Got a UK first press Pink Scroll of Trespass and its similarly muffled on certain tracks.
Is this just a thing Genesis does? The remix/remaster sounds a lot clearer, but with some changes that are controversial.
Pick your poison I guess.

 

I'm not lucky enough to have a Pink Scroll of Trespass, but I've noticed on various digital and vinyl copies that I do have, that the opening track, "Looking For Someone," sounds rather dull/muffled in comparison to the rest of the album. On CD, the US MCA increases the upper frequencies enough that the opening track sounds very good, but the rest sounds way too trebly. Basically, if you want the album as a whole to sound reasonably well-balanced, the opening track should sound somewhat dull.

The remix is interesting, in that Peter's lead vocals are made far more clear and present--it is really impressive in that way. However, I still cannot listen to it, because it gets rid of my favorite part of the album's production: the rich, haunting quality of the background vocals.

 

I find White Mountain and Stagnation way more dull than Looking for Someone. But it is also a bit muffled indeed.
Yet Dusk and The Knife are great sounding.

 

Interesting!

 

How about Blue Oyster Cult's debut album? I have a Columbia House pressing from the late 70s that sounds horribly muffled. The only record where I can recall getting up to adjust the treble control on my receiver.

 

A while back, picked up a 1971 copy of the Stones Hot Rocks (London Records ‎– 2PS 606/7). It was in NM condition, so I figured it was good to go.

Cleaned it with Audio Intelligent #6/Record Doctor, like I do all my new acquisitions. I have to crank the volume way past 12 o’clock to even get low listening levels. Vocals are kind of muffled on some songs.
I’ll be looking for a better copy, what’s great compilation.

 

I bought a cheap one last year. The sound was so bad I threw it out. I really did...and I never do.

 

I’ve had that experience, and how sad...Flying on the Ground is Wrong, only bad track, on an otherwise lovely mono Buffalo Springfield.

Heartbreak.

 

Wonder if it was the same one. I don't have it with me here to check, but I remember the catalog number was the same as the original pressing. That same catalog number got used well into the '80s. I'll have to check the deadwax on Friday. Either way, it was awful. I played it once.

 

I’m remembering a London blue label. But barely...it was a bad memory!

 

Haha that’s the first thought I had when I saw this thread title. I’ve had 3 copies of this on the OG Blue London Label. For a Sterling Mastered disc it’s bunk. Copies have ranged from VG to strong VG+ and they all exhibited the same issue, suggesting it’s not wear. I think I’ll either try an 80s red label digital reissue, or the reissue from a few years ago next round. I could care less about the digital source — whatever they used to mix the OG comp is horrible.

I’ve had other albums that have exhibited the muddy effect, none that I can recall off the top of my head. It’s not as common as the dreaded brittle/bright mastering that plagues 80s albums but bad EQ balance can go both ways.

 

The Guess Who Live At The Paramount is a muffled record, although with some EQing and cranking of le volume it still resonates!

 

Well if Genesis and now Wishbone Ash that I discovered can sound muffled then The Stones can too Im sure. Ive heard they only used as low as 3db of dynamic range on some recordings.

 

Probably not the same problem but I have several records where the vocals are buried in the background on some tracks and the music is way in front. Other tracks on the same record sound normal. I was never able to explain this.
Two examples from memory are Purple Haze from an early U.K. pressing of Are You Experienced and some tracks on an Israeli pressing of Sgt. Pepper.

 

Bad mixing / mastering. A friend once told me that the mixing engineers listen to the music they work on a lot. And you know that when you realize what the lyrics say its clear as day for you as a listener. He suggested thats why some vocals are harder to understand on some music because its underplayed by the mixing engineer.

 

LLRNR - German Polydor
Foxtrot - 2008 Nick Davis remix

Both of these will give you much, much better sound. For original mix Foxtrot, I would simply get the 1980's Virgin/Charisma CD.

...and the easily available Hot Rocks reissue (cut from the 2003 DSD masters) trounces the old pressings too...

 

This is the answer I was looking for last year ;^)

 

If it is bad mastering or mixing then I will expect it to apply to all the records of the relevant pressing. The Jimi Hendrix record is a collectable 1968 UK repress version with NM copies on Discogs offered for $100+. If it was bad I would expect people to avoid this version.

 

It will apply to all records using the same metalwork. They could easily have reworked or had to have redo things like this, especially if its an Israeli press like you mentioned. They probably get their own 3rd or 4th generation copy of the tape which they have to master and cut from themselves.
Easy example of this is LZ II. All the early US copies after the RL release are muffled and lame sounding, they simply stopped the presses, redid the mastering and cut new laqcuers to press garbage records from.

 

Spot on!!

 

Combine that with the fact the comp is being made from dupe tapes in the US, generation loss, and whatever homogenizing eq-ing/leveling was applied to make it a “smooth” listen, and it’s easy to see why many comps sound better when assembled from masters in the digital domain.

I’ve had some other dull LPs though, some mastered at Strawberry, (in Germany or the UK) which some correlate to murkier work. I’m still interested in why a “dark” or “dull” record is less common than a “bright” “edgy” or “thin” one.

 

Well I think that mostly comes down to precieving brighter high end sounds as more detailed while muffled low end is the opposite. It makes sense to me, and people confuse it all the time, which is probably why a lot of reissues these days try to utalize the high end more than low end. And some do like brighter masterings, which is also probably why there is a dedicated fanbase for Japanese pressings.

 

Oh and I somehow forgot I just ordered a Foxtrot on Classic Records. Im curious how that one holds up as a non remix.

 

By the way my Nursery Cryme Pink Scroll that arrived last week is surprisingly better than Trespass, even with some groove wear that Im a little upset about ;^(