Multi-channel SACD connection

You want or even expect a quick final decision on copy protection? We can only dream. I'll tell you, the real revolution will be the use of HDMI for digital video interconnects for new generation players and HDTV sets. It takes it to another level and sets the stage for HDTV DVD. The SACD Team is in no hurry to risk the copy protection feature now locked into the analog only stream. The situation with cable, digital recorders, dish boxes, etc is just as confussed.

Richard.

 

I agree with Mikey about being forced to upgrade my equipment every few years in order to keep up with the latest and greatest in the digital age.

Good equipment doesn't come cheap. In the old days...maybe 10 to 15 years ago in the analog age, I wasn't concerned about my equipment being outdated in a few years, so I bought the best, and most likely one of the most expensive. Now with digital, I'm realizing that equipment becoming obsolete in a year or two is a way of life.

As a result, I've become very price-driven when buying digital equipment because I know that in a few years it's obsolete. Take my second DVD player, 2 months after I bought it, DTS was released and my DVD player was already obsolete. I didn't pay that much for the DVD player, so I lived without DTS for awhile and replaced it when I felt a real need to finally listen to some DVDs (like the Eagles) with DTS.

Now, with the latest and greatest advancement in cd, I am forced to replace probably one of the best A/V receivers a year or so ago with one that has 5.1 analog input in order to enjoy multi-channel SACDs.

Once I finally break down and buy the new A/V receiver some day, I won't buy an expensive receiver, but will buy the one that will give the most bang for the buck...knowing that in a year or so...I will most likely have to replace because the manufacturer have now a receiver with Richard's HDMI interconnect that makes my receiver obsolete.

Will the upgrades stop after HDMI? Nope.

The cycle will never end. We live in a digital throw away society, just don't spend a lot of money on it.

 

>>>PJ--

Very Well Said, and Very True.

I used to be the guy who bought the best, knowing that I'd keep the reciever for 7 or 8 years. Those days are long gone now.

And to think, as late as 1988 I was using my Dads 1960 EICO Tube Reciever and Garrard 301 TT!!!! Now THATS quality!

Mikey

 

Along the same lines...I'm holding off on purchasing a SACD player until at least a year of two...why? because there is no reason that I know of that the manufacturers right now can't build a DVD/SACD/CD..etc...all in one unit that has multi-channel 5.1 analog, digital, and any other kind of output that will provide our needs for at least 4 or 5 years down the road. Hey, digital is digital and the encoders are available now. Just look at the product line from Sony, for example, which is a total disaster with all the different bells and whistles on different products. Who would buy a $2,000 or $5,000 SACD player like the SCD-1 that can't play a DVD? Not me in this digital age.

 

>>>>>>>Again, PJ, very well Said!!

Its very disconcerting to me that there doesnt even EXIST a combo player that gives top notch SACD, DVD-A, DVd-V, and MP3 playback. The 47A has crappy SACD performance, and doesnt even DO MP3s, and IT costs 800$$!!!

You are right when you say that theres no reason why the manufactureres cant build such a unit. I really thought the Apex 2201 was going to be a START, a model for other companies to build on. Hell, I'd gladly pay 1,200 for a player that could play ANY 5 inch silver disk I put into it, and with quality performance. I think a lot of other folks would also.

And as for your comment about the SCD-1, very well spoken.....thats INSANE, to charge that mucg for a one dimentional player....and one that plays a format that may very well end up supported by only one company---Sony.

In fact, my friend AT Sony (professional audio/video sales) tells me that the sales force is petified right now because there is a persistant
undercurrent that EMI is going to release The Beatles, Beach Boys and Nat King Cole (the three biggest sellers in the EMI family, believe it or not)
in DVD-A 5.1 surround. No one at Sony wants another Beta/VHS war.
Beta WAS the better format, yet it lost because there was simply more software made for VHS, that was the one and only reason.

So i understand and agree with your point!

 

>>>Hey Gary, sure that will work, but boy thats a lot of real estate, cables, Power cords, space in the equipment rack, ect.


In my small apt, I couldnt do it.

I guess thats the price you pay for Tube Audio.

You would think some manufacturer would come out with a 5.1 Tube Surround Receiver!!! There Is a market for it!!

 

>>>>>Yea, that wouldnt be a cheap item, thats for sure.

But, it would be GREAT. I listen to mostly 60s stereo stuff, and watch a lot of DVD movies, so that product is taylor made for a guy like me.

Alas, I'm probably going to buy the Panasonic SA-HE1000.

Its 100 watts per 5.1 channels,
Got great reviews, has everything, including analog 5.1 inputs for DVD-A and SACD, and is available on line for as little as 228$

Cant beat that price for what ya get.

You might wanna think about keeping your tube amp for stereo and picking up one of these for 5.1 at that price how could you go wrong?

Mikey

 

I have been wondering when that is going to happen too.
The obstacle as I see it is that these tube pre-amps would also need some sort of SS gear inside of them to decode the digital signal then pass that decoded signal to the tubes.

Some sort of Tube/SS hybrid.

 

I've been thinking about this Panasonic, too. It'd get me well into multichannel SACD--if that's a place I want to be (which is not entirely clear to me). I am pining a bit to hear the quad mix of Tubular Bells....

If you get that receiver, please let me/us know how it sounds. From the reviews, it might be a bit better than most Japanese mid-fi amps, which is really not too bad all things considered.

Gardo

 

I agree...not a bad price for something you know that in a year or 2 is going to be obsolete for some reason or another.

It's ironic that in the old days, you couldn't touch a receiver with 100 watts/ch (even into only 2 channels, let alone 5) with all the plugs on the back and the tweaks in the front panel for less than $750. Nowadays, your'e paying too much if you spend more than $300 for a receiver like the HE1000.

Sure, the SCD-1 probably sounds better than the HE1000, but it can't sound that much better to justify the extra cost, not like in the old days when a MacIntosh amp beat the crap out of a Panasonic and was worth the extra cost.

I had a pair of old Ohm-F speakers that ate weak SS amplifiers for breakfast, and the only amp that wouldn't clip from the load was a SAE made in L.A. It was expensive compared to the other amps I tried, but it never clipped. I'm not famaliar with the world of tubes, so you still might get what you pay for with tube amps.

Regarding the 3 SACD player with separate amps, I also prefer to have all the controls in one receiver....geez seems like the equalization for SPLs of front, rear, sub and center would have to be calibrated each time you turn the equipment on. Most receivers today (even probably the HE1000) allow you to set the SPLs for surround sound and then forget them.

 

I was pretty confused about the new formats and applications, but I think I've got it straight now. My hi-fi guys at Natural Sound in Framingham, MA.
sold me a Lexicon MC-1 digital controller a few years ago with a great trade in on my Fosgate so I could decode AC-3 and DTS. Now comes SACD and DVD audio with 5.1 channels of analog output. I'm told that the proper thing to do is buy a multidisc Pioneer player for $1K that does SACD and DVD audio. However, to do multichannel SACD or DVD-audio (for which currently there is virtually no software) I need to take the latest trade-in + $5K to get the Lexicon MC-12 which has sufficient audio inputs for the SACD/DVD audio player in multichannel mode. The good news? I don't need to change my amps or speakers. Of course, I can buy the player now and save up for the controller when they'll have more software. My advice to everyone is don't be the first one on your block. Wait until the record companies put out a decent number of titles that you really want to have, including new releases, before you upgrade. The equipment will come down in price, and I'll be looking for an MC-12 on Ebay in a few years. Unless, of course, money is no object. If that was the case for me I'd get the player and the MC-12 now, just to hear Let It Bleed and Beggars Banquet (but remember, stereo only on those).

 

Damn!!!! i just missed getting the Pioneer SA-HE1000 tonite for 139$.

The wiz near me is going out of business. One of the sales guys I know there told me to come Thursday, that the one HE-1000 they had left was going to be 40% off. Someone beat me there and bought it!!

Oh well, it *was* silver anyway. The rest of gear is all black, so maybe it was for the best.

 

Are you listening through full-range speakers? If so, you'll be fine.


If not (e.g., you have satellites + sub), you may have a problem with stereo SACD and DVD-A. To keep the signal fully hi-rez, you'd need a system that does bass routing in the analog domain . This is currently rather rare. It's for this reason that I've finally broken down and bought a $250 Outlaw Audio ICBM unit (which is certain to be obsolete within a year or two, as hi-rez players start incorporating proper bass management routinely).

 

I don't know about most, but the couple that I looked at only had bass management on the digital setting. The Anthem AVM-20 does it by converting the signal to PCM. If you set it to Direct then there is no bass management leaving the sub to only recieve the recorded signal of .1. The Denon 4802 that I had earlier also had no bass management in the "pure-direct" analog setting.

 

Indeed, but I guess what he's saying that if you have dinky little satellites in the rear you won't get a balanced sound for the multichannel discs. Surround for video is different, because the most important information is in the center and front pair about 80% of the time. My system, incidentally, is reasonably well balanced with full range speakers in the rear (albeit smaller than my front pair). And the guys at Natural Sound set it all up to begin with and I trust them to know what sounds good, although not necessarily what I can afford.

 

Checkout the Marantz DV8300, it does DVD-V, DVD-A, SACD, MP3, CD.
Saw in the October Stereophile and also checked on Marantz' web page.
Sorry don't know the price.

 

Marantz DV8300
http://www.hometheatermag.com/shownews.cgi?234
Advanced price list = $1500.00

 

Only if you use the sub's speaker-level connections.

If you use the subwoofer line out of a receiver, which means the receiver is doing the bass management, there may have
been a digital step interpolated . I recently confirmed (via a Yamaha tech support guy) that my Yamaha HTR 5540, for example, does digital bass managment on all sources, unless the bass setting is 'MAINS'.

You should check with your mfrs tech support (making sure the person you are talking to has a clue...not always the case, alas)
to see how they implement stereo bass management. You may be
surprised.

 

Marantz Deck

>>>Hey Tony....does it do DVD-R ??

 

That Denon anecdote accords with the idea that bass management of stereo analog sources is often digital , in which case it's bypassed in an explicit 'analog only' setting.

With the Yamaha I own, 'analog only' would mean:
1) setting the DSP to 'STEREO' ( turning multichannel/ProLogic DSP off)
2) setting the bass routing to MAIN (which turns off digital bass routing)

the other way is to use the 5.1 analog inputs, which bypass
digital bass routing. However, that means that 2-channel input
goes full-range to the mains. One would need a dedicated 2.1
analog input in order to utilize these jacks for bass routing in
a 2.1 channel (satellite/sub) system (or one would have to use
the sub's speaker-level connections).

 

>>>>>>I bet is does do DVD-R.

Tell you what, thats a great deck, but its really pricey. If they break 1K on the price it might start to fly.