DCC Archive Multichannel from stereo ?

I guess in some ways I am old fashioned, but in the same breath, I love new things! My point is if a albuem was released in stereo, is makeing it multichannel a crime? It is like when they take an old black and white movie, say Cassablanca, and colorize it. It just does not seem right.
On the other hand, new releases in multichannel seem great. Many of you might remeber the no noise on the Beatles 1. It just seems artificial and uninvolving compared to original vinyl or MoFi releases. The same seems to be true of mulotichannel of things we are just used to in stereo. It does not bother me if they include a stereo version with the multi, such as Sony does, but still!

 

A loaded question, but it is deserving of an answer. I'll give you a few examples.

I've said a lot about DTS and my Rotel. In short, I can use any amp I want; SS or tube. Okay, we know that. DTS and Dolby Digital, the more popular modern multichannel formats are supported by it. Most newer pre's and receivers do that stuff. Read on.

I've bought a few DTS CDs and have been lucky enough to receive a few "homeade" DTS CDs made from those old 2-program 8 track tapes, 4 channel. Both Pink Floyd multi's I have are from it (DSOM, WYWH). I really liked em, and despite the noise reduction they went though, the presenation, now over 20 years old, the 4 channel not only brought forward a lot of music and "background effects" but also let songs end longer than they did. I enjoued listening to "Have a Cigar" when David plays for 30 more seconds after the blast on that song. DSOM, same thing. There were times Claire Torry's voice wasn't blown into reverb effect, and times she was. The experience was different, almost organic, but one has to remember the intended format... Stereo with plans for multi channel. I think they did a great job.

The best "homeade" masterings to DTS 4-channel came from 7 1/4 IPS reel tape, quad track on 1/2 track tape. The Moody Blues "Threshold/Dream" was fantabulous, and the person behind the wheel mastering that knew he was getting a great solid signal and clean, audiophile sound to start with. Wow. Back when these were recorded, someone HAD the multi, and made a quad mix correctly, because he could! Awesome.

Okay, then there's the Dolby Digital and DTS commercial CDs. Mixed reviews here. The Allman Bros is worth getting for the alternate "You Don't Love Me" used from (I think) the 2nd night at the Fillmore. It doesn't put you in the audience, the soundstage is all around you, and it seems like you're in the middle of the stage. I'd rather have stereo. Then, there's the Sting DTS's and the Fleeetwood Mac "Rumours" on DVD-A which sound great on their own, and are a lot of fun. I still enjoy the Stereo, because of what I'm used to. Again, you can hear instruments that weren't in the final mix at all. Do you like that?? You might not.

I'll just leave you with this, and your experiences are to your own opinion: Always keep the stereo (or original) presenation picture in mind. You can't put rosy cheeks on the Mona Lisa and say "improved". It's just not right. It's fun to warp and colour the image, it may even be to your liking, but my experince with multi channel is, it's more like the Disneyland ride of the real thing.

I even took something like Billie Holiday's "Lady In Satin" and tried taking the whole thing, seperated the channels by EQ and de-EQing sections of each supposed channel to make the brass instruments come out of mainly one channel, her in the front, delayed reverb floats to the back. Did it work? Yes, but it wasn't right. It was just an experiment. It wasn't as convincing as the Classic 45RPM issue.

Try it. I did like listening to the Eagle's Hell Freezes Over in DTS on both video and DTS CD. It's all how it's recorded, you see, and the best results are from people who have the 4-6 channel idea from the get-go, or have enough balance and feel the multi-track has promise and potential for the multi-channel format.

Imagine the sound of Joni Mitchell's "Blue" in quad. Ok, but then imagine "Court and Spark" in quad or 5.1... I can. I can definately see that. I can almost hear it now.


Try it, and it may either expand your mind or make you spin-dizzy.

 

I have my share of multichannel music software in my library, including some of the titles that Sckott mentions in his post. As he says, a lot of this depends on the listener's viewpoint and willingness to be openminded. A multichannel mix doesn't even have to be a surround or quad mix, just a simple transfer of, for example, Miles Davis' "Kind Of Blue" from the original 3-channel session master, which is, I believe, the current configuration for Sony's multichannel SACD pressing. If any of you noticed my earlier post, I mentioned that DTS is releasing on November 20th Queen's "A Night At The Opera" on DVD-Audio with a brand new 5.1-channel surround mix by Elliot Scheiner & Queen's producer, Roy Thomas Baker. It will also include the same mix in 96k/24-bit DTS, as well as MLP 96k/24-bit original stereo mix in the DVD-Audio layer. They also will include an uncompressed 96k/24-bit remaster of the stereo mix in the DVD-Video layer. All of this variety should make for a fascinating release and a provocative comparison with DCC's Gold Disc remaster!

 

Many of the surround sound mixes available these days are re-hashes of old qudrophonic mixes (The Paul Mcartney & Wings releases are 4 channel, The Doors and Alice Cooper discs seem to have added a discreet center channel and subwoofer, but they are also essentially the same). Of what I have I find The Doors and The Fleetwood Mac discs to have the most natural sound depite being very discreet. Venus and Mars is unlistenable. Emerson Lake and Palmer Brain Salad Surgery is very "dizzying", however well balanced and - somehow - this music seems suited to this format. None of these discs replace the standard issues in my collection, they are more like alternate viewpoints.

 

There are some good Multichannel SACDs out there that are not from the '70s Quad Era.

Check out "Hourglass" by James Taylor, "Rage Hard" by Frankie Goes to Hollywood, "Film Music of Jerry Goldsmith" and "Swing Live" by Bucky Pizzarelli.

All are very well done - wonderful detail and fine use of the Surround Channels.

List of Multichannel SACDs - Now Available

 

I too have plenty of DTS CDs. The only problems I experienced were a need to readjust the center channel volume between commercial DTS CDs.

I recently bought some bootlegs of old quads. The only problem I experienced here was a need to readjust bass volume between prior mediums. I found Q8 bassline is about 9dB lower than Q4 CDs. When I fed this back to the producer (he asked), he indicated he already tried to compensate with a sonic maximizer. However, he recommends turning the sub off. I find that unacceptible. That's like asking one to turn off the center channel on commercial DTS CDs.

 

Mart, you're absolutely right with the fact that the swift change in the low end can be annoying to compensate, but also I'd say a couple a things. First off, most of the Q8's I've listened to (into DTS) sound either good or great, but occasionally employ noise reduction, sometimes harder to pinpont. This sometimes makes the sound seem rounder and dull in the bottom end. It's similar to how Dolby "B" is employed on encoded cassettes. No rant intended here.

Plus, for a purists point of view, you can easilly roll off the bass in the front channels and copy it to the subwoof channel in the signal, but this is wrong. First of all, commerical DTSs only have general full range sensitivity, but from the multi, you wanna use the bass tracks fed directly and ONLY into the subwoof. That's way cool man. Now, knowing the homemade Quad releases originally are complete full range in four channels, you don't want to ruin the authenticity of the original sound, wrong or right. I want to hear it as the way it was intended, weather it sounds better or not.

It also takes some serious work to roll off the bass from all four channels and out it into the last track for the sub, then feed it into the software, then use either SMPTE synchro or try to lay this homemade bass against the other four channels? Wow. Talk about frustration not including it doesn't make sense.

It may seem easy, but to fool with a bonifide "good" digital audio editor and prepare it for Surcode DTS software is a pain in the kiester, and unless you have a 900mhz machinene or higher, it's waiting for almost nothing to happen, then reconstruct the mischef to the other 4? Tylanol won't cure that pain.

I'm fortunate to have what I do. I don't believe on shooting down the messanger for this reason (nothing on you, my friend) for the fact he's laid serious groundwork on getting the correct playback equipment married to a PC. I don't envy his fight on eBay, his time or whatever he's defended while his girlfriend or wife possibly hangs him from a noose regardless. She doesn't care if he's brave for the rest of us.

I welcome more of the preservation of the old Quad mixes for the fun they were intended to be. A lot of them sound startling, despite original format, and for a long time, that technology was laughed at. I say bravo to those who break a finger at the keyboard to bring this music to the privilidged few. Roll more!

Apologies. /rant.

[ October 30, 2001: Message edited by: Sckott ]

 

This is my tiny DTS CD library. Although it does exceed my DTS LD library. My system is crying for more.

Ken Cranes

• Alan Parsons: On Air
• Bachman Turner Overdrive: Not Fragile
• Belinda Carlisle: A Woman And A Man
• Brian Wilson: Imagination
• Eagles: Hell Freezes Over
• Edgar Winter: Jasmine Nightdreams
• Holst: The Planets: Previn
• Jeff Beck: Beck, Bogart And Appice
• Moody Blues: Days Of Future Passed
• Moody Blues: Seventh Sojourn
• Olivia Newton John: Back With A Heart
• Paul McCartney And Wings: Band On The Run
• Police: Every Breath You Take: The Classics
• Santana: Abraxas
• Steve Miller Band: Fly Like An Eagle
• Trisha Yearwood: Where The Road Leads

Tab Patterson's Quadraphonic Site ~~ [email protected]

• Bread - Best Of (QR)
• Carpenters - The Singles (Fostex Q8)
• Collins, Judy - Colors Of The Day "Best Of " (QR)
• Doors - Best Of (QR)
• Eagles - One of These Nights (Fostex Q8)
• Guess Who, The - Best Of (QR)
• Jefferson Airplane - The Worst of (QR)
• Jethro Tull - Aqualung (QR)
• Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (Tate SQ)
• ZZ Top - Tres Hombres (QR)

oblio98's DTS conversions ~~ [email protected]

• Rock Sampler

[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Mart ]