Murder Most Foul - New Bob Dylan Song- #1 hit!*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Jerryb, Mar 27, 2020.

  1. misterbozz

    misterbozz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nerima-ku, Tokyo
    I listened to this again, particularly was reminded of the final stanza of Yeats' poem "Circus Animal's Desertion", that sort of defines post-modernism as well as looks back on his career.

    Those masterful images because complete
    Grew in pure mind but out of what began?
    A mound of refuse or the sweepings of a street,
    Old kettles, old bottles, and a broken can,
    Old iron, old bones, old rags, that raving slut
    Who keeps the till. Now that my ladder's gone
    I must lie down where all the ladders start
    In the foul rag and bone shop of the heart.

    I think to me at least, the listing of the songs is sifting through the foul rag and bone shop.
     
  2. jlf

    jlf Custom Title Unlocked

    Location:
    United States
    Check Spotify in the morning. It won’t be an epic. Standard song length.
     
  3. jlf

    jlf Custom Title Unlocked

    Location:
    United States
  4. IHeartRecordsAz

    IHeartRecordsAz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Is this an actual cover for something? Or is this a fan-made thing?
     
  5. jlf

    jlf Custom Title Unlocked

    Location:
    United States
    This is the cover for the upcoming single.
     
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  6. jlf

    jlf Custom Title Unlocked

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    United States
  7. jlf

    jlf Custom Title Unlocked

    Location:
    United States
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  8. swedwards1960

    swedwards1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton OH
    Dylan is clearly responding to the put-downs of his “Murder Most Foul” lyrics in this thread with the new song’s line, “I have to apologies to make.”
     
  9. Lee mcc

    Lee mcc Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bs35
    Love the new song so much its been going inside my head like a fever for
    days.
     
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  10. EDLIS Café

    EDLIS Café Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Habana, Cuba
    Tara Zuk was the guest on the Murder Most Foul podcast. Her published articles might amuse. Her Highlands: Jean Redpath, Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, and the Scottish Bard in The Living Tradition was excellent.

    She is also part of the collective that did the Hibbing book.

    Will she be covering every song on the new album? ;-) Keep listening to Pod Dylan.
     
  11. JudasPriest

    JudasPriest Forum Resident

    Increasingly convinced this is a serious contender for best 21st century Bob song.
     
  12. EDLIS Café

    EDLIS Café Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Habana, Cuba
    Excellent. Pod Dylan takes Comments look forward to seeing the specific corrections there! ;-)
     
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  13. EDLIS Café

    EDLIS Café Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Habana, Cuba
    Place and date?
     

  14. All I could find was 80 or 81 they did it during Concerts.
     
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  15. Lewisboogie

    Lewisboogie Forum Resident

    OK. I listened the podcast again tonight:

    * Tara Zuk doesn’t understand the Magic Bullet. No one in their right mind is questioning the direction from which said bullet traveled. The questions involve whether one bullet wounded Kennedy and Connally in the way the WC described. (21:14)
    * I agree with the reference to “A Day in the Life,” but Tara suggests that Tara Browne committed suicide. As far as I know it was a reckless accident. (25:34)
    * I don’t think Tara understands the layout of Dealey plaza. In reference to the arrest of the three tramps (which indeed came after the assassination), she suggests Dealey Plaza is 100 yards or meters from the assassination. That’s not accurate. The assassination took place in Dealey Plaza.
    * Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man: Tara seems to understand the basics of the novel, but she refers to films? Is she confusing Ellison’s story with the HG Wells story turned into the 1933 film? She could be referring to both but I can’t tell. Confusing.

    Anyway, I enjoyed the podcast. Tara Zuk offered great insights and I enjoy the song more after the discussion.
     
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  16. streetlegal

    streetlegal Forum Resident

    Tonight this song really hit me in all its humanity.

    As if the narrator is summoning, incanting, invoking all that he can think off to blot out the darkness (“Play!”). But also as an affirmation that all that art, all that culture, high and low, serious and pop, must mean something, surely, against all this mess.

    The song recalls so many others. If mod-Bob is inter-textual, he no more is he so than with his own legacy—thematically, lyrically, musically.

    One song that comes to mind is the epic “Brownsville Girl.”

    Both songs deal with graphic depictions of violent assassinations which, at one level, cause ruptures in the universe, and, at another level, are symbolic of the impending death of the artist. All these “Plays” might also be a desperate plea not to blot out all that is bad, but to memorialize art, to defy the transient, ephemeral nature of what matters—to put it crudely, does the ‘60’s and its pop art legacy have any real lasting value?

    "We’ve already got someone here to take your place.”
    “They killed him on the altar of the Rising Sun.”

    Brownsville girl is also about a “Rising Son”--the new kid on the block that kills the "Father" (or Father Figure). That slays the artist. New god versus old god.

    "As the dying gunfighter lay in the sun and gasped for his last breath
    'Turn him loose, let him go, let him say he outdrew me fair and square
    I want him to feel what it’s like to every moment face his death.' "

    The young buck who slays the old hand in broad daylight (Kennedy was a cowboy “a’ riding high” but brought down low); the new trend versus the old; the death of the author and the rise of the audience (reader) as Roland Barthes put it (“I’ll see him in anything so I’ll stand in line” “Thousands were watching”). Old god versus new god. And, to put it bluntly, Springsteen (the new Dylan) versus the original Dylan.

    The fear of death.

    In "Brownsville Girl," the fading artist takes flight and seeks refuge in reliving old times and an old movie. In "Murder Most Foul" the narrator evokes art, mainly music, as a last stand against transience, mortality, and the fading glories of life. A defence of art and the works of human kind to make sense of the word, high art, low art, and everything in between.

    What strikes me most right now is how much this song sounds like a funeral march and how much death pervades. It creeps into so many lines (just take a look again).

    This song is an elegy. For the ‘60’s, for art, for the artist, for us all.

    And, in its face, to “Play” is a kind of heroic defiance.

    It's a thing of real beauty, and it really hit me tonight.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  17. streetlegal

    streetlegal Forum Resident

    PS. Do you all hear the ticking clock that keeps fading in and out? (mentioned it before, and now I am sure it's there).
     
  18. hyntsonsvmse

    hyntsonsvmse Johnny Guitar

    Location:
    northumberland
    Murder Most Foul is also a rather good movie starring margaret Rutherford
     
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  19. EDLIS Café

    EDLIS Café Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Habana, Cuba
    Murder Most Foul - New Bob Dylan Song- #1 hit!*

    >there were some glaring mistakes about American history, some specific to the assassination, others in general. But I’ll give them a break. It was rushed and in the moment. — Lewis Boogie (Rees Station Illinois)

    >Oh yeah she made some real boners. But I tend to just overlook that stuff, it’s so frequent everywhere I’ve just given up. — sekaer

    Murder Most Foul - New Bob Dylan Song- #1 hit!*

    >OK. I listened the podcast again tonight:
    * Tara Zuk doesn’t understand the Magic Bullet. No one in their right mind is questioning the direction from which said bullet traveled. The questions involve whether one bullet wounded Kennedy and Connally in the way the WC described. (21:14)

    No. 100% wrong.

    Tara just mentioned the term 'magic bullet' as part of the conspiracy theories when she is discussing the recurring magic theme in the song.

    "The Magic Bullet was the Warren Commission’s Exhibit 399. It was apparently found on a stretcher outside the Parkland Hospital operating theater. The bullet was apparently of the same type as those found on the sixth floor of the Depository. It was supposedly fired from the rifle found at the scene. A hospital attendant insisted that the bullet was found on a stretcher unrelated to the shooting and the bullet produced in evidence wasn’t even the same as the one from the stretcher."

    >* I agree with the reference to “A Day in the Life,” but Tara suggests that Tara Browne committed suicide. As far as I know it was a reckless accident. (25:34)

    No. 100% wrong.

    No such suggestion from Tara.

    "On 17 December 1966, Browne was driving with his girlfriend, model Suki Potier, in his Lotus Elan through South Kensington at high speeds in excess of 106 mph/170 km/h."

    Driving at over 100 miles an hour in a 30 miles per hour zone in a densely crowded part of a major city is not accidental. It is reasonable to assume he may have intended his own death and maybe the deaths of many others.

    But the reference is not directly to the historical event but to the Beatles lyric "He blew his mind out in a car". The Beatles song is portraying suicide, making the listener think of blew his brains out.. And may have many layers of reference.


    >* I don’t think Tara understands the layout of Dealey plaza. In reference to the arrest of the three tramps (which indeed came after the assassination), she suggests Dealey Plaza is 100 yards or meters from the assassination. That’s not accurate. The assassination took place in Dealey Plaza.

    No. 100% wrong.

    The reports say the three men were arrested in Dealey Plaza about 100 yards away from where the assassination happened. Both the arrest of the three tramps and the assassination take place in Dealey Plaza. That's all Tara said.

    35:00

    >* Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man: Tara seems to understand the basics of the novel, but she refers to films? Is she confusing Ellison’s story with the HG Wells story turned into the 1933 film? She could be referring to both but I can’t tell. Confusing.

    No. 100% wrong.

    Tara mentions the film and books Invisible Man without mentioning H.G. Wells. She could have said his name and specified the different versions, but Tara tends to assume a sophistication among her listeners which may not be warranted for all. She picked up specifically on the Ellison book because of the links to civil rights that resonated and also it was American.

    She is obviously referring to both. Listen to her words.

    55:00

    Four straw man arguments. Logic 101.

    Where are the glaring mistakes? You have cited not one. The boners?

    Pod Dylan #123 – Murder Most Foul
     
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  20. Lewisboogie

    Lewisboogie Forum Resident

    OK, this is clearly important to you. Again, let me start by saying I LOVED the podcast. I agree with most all the views expressed (especially the discussion about the "truth"). But that doesn't mean I'm blind to mistakes. Overall, Tara has good command of the facts, and she admits several times in the podcast that she had been researching many of the historical references in the days (hours?) prior to the podcast. So it's understandable that there might be a few mistakes.

    * The Magic Bullet: Tara clearly suggests that the direction of that bullet is at issue. That's not true. You really can't explain anything to me about the theories related to that bullet that I don't understand.

    * I don't think the Beatles lyric necessarily references suicide. And Tara clearly mentions *suicide. Your interpretation of Tara Browne's actions that led to his death doesn't have anything to with Dylan's song.

    * The Three Tramps: OK, they were arrested (after found on a train) in the rail yard near Dealey Plaza. Perhaps 100 yards from the site of the assassination. Photos show them being paraded through Dealey Plaza. At first Tara said they were arrested before the assassination, but this was corrected, or at least suggested that it might have been after. At the least her understanding of the facts about their arrest is unclear and presented in a confusing way. Kennedy was assassinated in Dealey Plaza. The tramps were eventually paraded through Dealey Plaza.

    * The Invisible Man: *sophistication regarding two very different stories with the same title might at least include some mention of both. She was excited to move to the Ellison novel and simply moved a bit too quickly. Obviously, I understand the two but would all her listeners?

    Again, I enjoyed the podcast.
    What I do take issue with, however, is your reference to *ignorance in a previous post. Would you withdraw that comment?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  21. Lewisboogie

    Lewisboogie Forum Resident

    One of my favorite commentaries on the song. Thank you.
     
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  22. Lewisboogie

    Lewisboogie Forum Resident

    After MMF, I loaded Tempest on the iPod and re-visited the songs after long time away. I only enjoyed one or two. And I have to say, I find “Roll On, John” to be absolutely awful. I didn’t remember it that way, but I was shocked about how poor it seems now.
     
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  23. JudasPriest

    JudasPriest Forum Resident

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  24. Socrates

    Socrates Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Willie McTell said:
    That’s an interesting point. How does MMF compare for you in comparison to the Tempest album? Given the choice, or Dylan’s got a gun to your head and says to you “you must choose one or else.....”



    So you’re choosing the bullet too? Did I take that post by John way too personally? I thought John Lennon was taking up arms against me. I guess you can say on a message board: “What if Bob Dylan had a gun to your head?” and that’s just a totally ok statement to make. I complained about it yesterday, then John and I eventually liked each other’s posts, and all was well. But now those posts have disappeared.

    So I’ll just say ‘whatever’ to the whole thing. I guess we’re living in death threat culture now, and it’s totally cool to represent Bob Dylan holding a gun to a fan’s head. I’m telling you again, he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue.
     
  25. Socrates

    Socrates Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    [​IMG]




    That Bob. He’s so adorable no matter what he does.
     

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