Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Which water temperature produces the best pressing of Kind Of Blue?

 

Morning and late afternoon temperatures (according to Fremer and Hoffman).

 

Me, too.

Plus a beverage.

 

I seriously hope they just keep going at it

 

Most entertaining thread on the forum bar none.

 

Ironic that Steve having pointed out that the whole 45 thing is pretty much useless, he's never an "expert" you reference in that situation.

 

With all due respect Steve is a mastering engineer. Has he ever directly overseen or been in charge of manufacturing at a pressing plant?

 

I assume you meant this to be directed at Jeff about the Water Temperature Theory.

Obviously, cutting to 45 would be done as a part of mastering and long before the manufacturing process.

 

Sorry, Yes I am referring to Jeff's water "theory"

 

Water Temperature Theory (aka WTF) is something that people should spend exactly zero time worrying about, IMO.

Not saying it's impossible, but come on....

The "hot stamper" crowd must be loving this conversation.

Jeez, I consider myself an "audiophile" but this is even making me relate to people who say; "Just shut up and enjoy music."

 

"Cool" water, of course.

 

Taking an MMJ break and spinning Blind Melon's Soup right now. No idea what water temp was used in the making of this pressing.

 

Tim, if you'd like maybe we can look at starting a reissue label using only the finest artisan quintuple distilled water in our manufacturing process.

 

Water is obviously a key component of the pressing system: steam for heating the vinyl, water is heated by an industrial size boiler,
and cold water to cool down the pressed record is cooled by a chiller unit that provides constant temperature cold water to the press.
These are closed looped systems that circulate the water.

In summer, it can be difficult to make enough cold water, and keep it cold as the plants get really hot.

The chiller unit at QRP is massive:

 

Is that one also done by Analog Spark? I've heard their water is only so-so

 

It is! Excellent label. But yeah I think they use tap water.

 

Whatever the cause I can attest to two different copies of the same album sounding quite different. I recieved a replacement copy of disc 2 of the Fragile One Step and there was a very noticeable difference in the high frequency reproduction between both copies, most noticeably on Mood For A Day. Dead wax #'s were identical so it may be the time of day/water temp theory that caused it or possibly when in the lifespan of the more Fragile(no pun intended) convert the record was pressed. Very curious either way!

 

I have there Sam Cooke live at the Harlem Square Club and Cranberries Everybody's doing it so why can't we.

 

The number of copies pressed by the stamper is the usual explanation for sound differences between copies,
as the plates wear in the cycle of repeated pressings. So the fewer number of records pressed on the
stampers before your copy was made is preferable, even ones made from the same stampers.

The temperature of the vinyl needs to be in the correct range to flow properly, if it is to not elastic enough
by being too cold, that could cause non-fill sections, or voids. Usually a record that is cooled incorrectly
gets warped, by contracting too quickly if the water is too cold, or if the vinyl comes out of the press while
it's too warm, it may edge warp from being too pliable. But i don't know about any theoretical impact
on the grooves changing how it sounds.

 

Standing by @AnalogJ on this one, and kinda feel bad for the way he’s getting ganged up on for just recounting his findings. I can’t speak for his particular copy, or what drives any of it, but the “hot stamper” theory is quite real and I’ve seen it for myself. Now, I’ve never bought one of Tom Port’s records, because I try not to pay for work I can generally do myself, but I have bought multiple copies of the same album to find the “perfect” copy and they definitely all sounded different. Same mastering engineer, same year, etc and I’ve heard the difference. For The Band’s self titled album I went through nearly a dozen copies to find the right one. All RL cuts, including two with the exact same deadwax info. Even between those two, there were significant differences. I don’t know why - there are so many different factors in vinyl playback. But it happened none the less.

I have also compared 2-4 copies of modern reissues and have found differences, but the varying degrees of those differences was slighter than when I’ve done it with vintage copies. This is likely because many modern reissues keep stamper presses lower, but I think there are other factors at play.

Now, for the record, I have compared 2 copies of identical MMJs on several occasions and even 3 copies of one title and heard no differences other than surface noise. But is it possible? 100% IMO.

 

That's an interesting point, but there are plenty of experts who say otherwise, not to mention Joe Harley. Plus my own ears tell me otherwise. My ears only suggest an idea. If I don't know why I'm hearing what I'm hearing, I investigate it.

With the case of the two copies of Song For My Father, the only reason I have a 2nd copy is that my 1st copy had a ripple warp. MM sent me a replacement.

I was surprised and puzzled why they sounded different, considering the low number of copies off each stamper. It's not like the stamper was "tired", as supposedly happens when a stamper is overly used. Yet, the difference between the copies sounded like one came off a tired stamper when A/B'd. Again, I was perplexed.

I didn't know anything about why this would occur. I emailed several people - Fremer, Hoffman, Stan Ricker (if I recall correctly, as I was friendly with him), and someone at RTI. I remember Hoffman and Fremer both responding independently that the time of day the copy is pressed can sound different in the way I described it due to water temperature used in cooling varying. Copies pressed in the morning and later afternoon tended to sound best.

I came away thinking about all the variables involved in pressing an LP and how they can affect the sound.

 

Records from the same run can absolutely sound different. I worked in the record biz 73-80 and I heard copies from the same box sound slightly different when we played in the store or at home. And I didn’t have the type of gear I have today.

I worked at ABC for a couple of years and I recall having boxes of the Steely Dan double best album from 78. Some would sound fantastic and others a bit different And slightly off. An early record I A B’d to get the best copy Which I‘VW rarely ever done.

BTW that comp does sounds killer. I see lots of stamped promos around still

 

I, like many I know, usually hate compilation albums but that one, as you say, sure is killer. I haven’t played it in years but as I recall, some of the tracks actually sounded better than from the original albums so I assumed they went back to the tapes to produce it.

 

Yes and it’s a fabulous comp. and of course we sold it to Dan fan sagain because of one friggen new song Here sat the Western World

it was the follow up to Aja and sounds Almost just as good for the most part