Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 13, 2014.
Underrated. You’ll love it.
Spinning Inner Urge as we speak, haven't played any of my MMJ's for a while and I have to say, sounds great! The Shorter and Blakey are also on their way over the pond so eagerly awaiting those!
Great. May I ask where you got this? Having these MMJ in the Netherlands seems difficult to me, and postage costs from the US are simply too high.
Managed to get the 33 Solid as I prefer that format. I’m now looking to sell my unopened 45rpm.
I purchased Smithville from a private seller via Discogs. Other MMJ45 titles were purchased from Spanish and Portugese Discogs sellers. But those were a ‘bit’ more expensive than the last one. But EU, so no added taxes and modest shipping costs. I don’t know any shops in The Netherlands with MMJ titles on offer, unfortunately...
Can you all confirm these are all the AP45 versions of MMJ 33 (or SRX) titles that exist? I've actually owned a good chunk of the below, but hopped on the MMJ bandwagon and got rid of these in my attempts to grab all the MMJ.
For those that have them or been able to A/B compared to the MMJs (please specify if it's the 33 or the SRX for those that have an SRX) can you comment on preference and your experience? I know there's a lot of factors at play, like:
Mastering - Steve + Kevin during AcousTech days vs Kevin + Joe + Ron (although was Joe not as much of a part of the 33/SRX MMJ time period?)
I think all of the AP titles were pressed at RTI originally, but not sure if all had QRP represses. I know all the big titles did, but obviously RTI vs QRP is a variable as well (along with the QRP 200g vs 180g presses)
I believe only Blues Walk was cut in stereo for AP vs mono for MMJ EDIT - Blue Train is also AP stereo and MMJ mono - thanks @Greenmonster2420!
Format, obviously - 45rpm vs 33rpm vs SRX (knowing the mastering is the same on the 33rpm vs SRX, but vinyl formulation playing a part)
AP45 titles that had a MMJ 33 and/or SRX release:
Art Blakey - Moanin'
Cannonball Adderley - Somethin' Else
Dexter Gordon - Go!
Freddie Hubbard - Hub-Tones
Grant Green - Green Street
Grant Green - Idle Moments
Hank Mobley - Workout
Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
Ike Quebec - Blue & Sentimental
Jackie McLean - Jackie's Bag
Joe Henderson - Page One
John Coltrane - Blue Train
Johnny Griffin - Introducing Johnny Griffin
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue
Kenny Dorham - Whistle Stop
Lee Morgan - Lee-Way
Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder
Lou Donaldson - Blues Walk
Basically, I'm deciding how stupid I want to be and try to either 1) grab all of the AP versions 0f the above OR replace any of the MMJ versions I have for the AP version.
Blue Train is also stereo AP and mono MMJ.
Ah, yes - missed that one. Thanks!
You are also missing Lee Morgan - Leeway
The bottom line is going to be about how much you like top end sizzle. The AP 45s tend to be fuller and I prefer them. The MMJ 33s are always going to have more top end (less so with 2019 SRX) and will sound incredibly fast and exciting. The downside of the latter to me is that those close-mic’d horns Van Gelder favored can be problematic when you push that top end. Depends on your system and listening preferences.
So with the 33s, if you like cymbals to really shine and even splash around through the soundstage, you’re going to get that. If you want a bit more emphasis on lifelike mids with some tube magic, the stuff from AcousTech is going to win out.
I personally think a mistake was made in moving further away from what Steve and Kevin were doing at AcousTech. I know over at LJC there were some who felt that the early MMJs weren’t exciting enough and maybe a bit too bassy, but I don’t agree at all. A lot of those folks love the original RVG pressings and so I suspect for them the AcousTech sound was moving a bit too far away from that. Maybe Joe and Ron came to agree with that sentiment, but obviously that has little relevance to what I like. I find that the AP 45s and early MMJ 45s are just aging better for me. Sometimes if I spin one and then listen to the same tile on a MMJ 33, I see what they are going for on the latter, but it’s kind of too much for me in the end.
The 45 is "better". There have been a few who have done a shootout here.
Well said, and I agree. The AP45s are simply the best to my ears, with the MMJ 45s right beside them. The MMJ33s are great, no doubt, but there is a less life like presentation to them, that many find to be more exciting and in your face.
I’m sure they are. They should be as well. I just prefer the 33rpm format. Call me old fashioned. I’m ok with slightly less quality…hey…the 33s aren’t exactly bad. I have the SRX Solid.
I’m with you. I’ll take 33s over 45s, would rather have the correct flow of the record rather than the slight increase in sound quality. The 33s sound amazing enough!
Exactly. I’ve had the 45s and srx’s of solid and inner urge. I prefer 33, but if the sound was that much better I’d keep the 45. But I didn’t , I kept the 33. It’s not like they’re trash. For Solid, I felt the SRX Elvin’s drums were more natural and lifelike sounding than on the 45, he’s like lead drummer on the 45. I love Elvin and drums in general but felt the 33 felt right with how he sounds and fits in the picture. The differences though were minor, sometimes articulating what we notice different between the two make it sound like huge obvious problems.
It's not merely a "slight increase in sound quality". That description makes it sound like the difference is more or less academic, like turning the volume on the amp up from 7 to 8.
On a good system and if you're listening intently, the 45 is looser, more alive, the music breathes more. That's a LOT.
In audiophile terms, the 33 is fine. It seems dynamic, has excellent frequency extension in the bass, great clarity, rich instrumental detail.
But the 45 has a greater sense of real players playing real music. To my ears, that's a lot and worth the inconvenience.
Id agree with this. I have never understood the inconvenience factor of 45s. You are talking about a 10 second break between songs. I get it on albums where the songs segue together like Dark Side of the Moon, but for a jazz session where the songs aren't literally flowing into one another it is fine imo. And getting up shouldn't be a big deal imo.
Exactly. Sequencing/flow from one song to the next is of little importance on 95% of jazz albums IMO. Now, take an album like Ole Coltrane, where the 45 breaks the title track in two - that is a no go for me. Add to it that it’s mono (I much prefer this album in stereo to hear the interaction between the two basses) and the fact that my 60s repress sounds way better, that one I sold pretty fast after a few listens.
My system is more than good enough, and I agree the sound is better on 45’s but the 33’s sound fantastic in their own right and I’d rather listen to the record the way it was intended. I guess I’m not as anal about SQ being the most important thing as the audiophiles in this forum are.
If I’m playing this fantastic music I want to get lost in it for 20 minutes, not break away to flip a record every 8 minutes. By the way I own a ton of 45s. All I’m saying is I prefer the format on 33.
Sorry if that upsets you.
Doesn't bother me one bit. I was offering another way to look at appreciating what the 45s have to offer. My priority is to get the most of what the musicians had in mind with their performances. If getting up is more disruptive to your listening than getting the ultimate in the performances, that's your prerogative.
Is the Grant Green Solid 33rpm 2021 repress the same as as the 2019 as in…is it SRX?
Not SRX, standard black vinyl.
It has always worked well for a lot of the jazz reissues that I have from Music Matters in particular. I've never minded getting up and flipping.
I'd estimate 2/3 of my MMJ collection are the 45s. I like both.
I've even seen the advantages of 45 RPM with some modern rock and electronic releases.
Some 45 RPMs that still blow my mind are the AP reissues of Nat King Cole.
Music Matters jazz records are THE BEST jazz records ever reissued period. You can try to convince yourself otherwise but I have been listening for decades and that is what I hear. the AP records can sound a bit sterile IMO. The Tone Poets are better than the AP's. You have to ask yourself a question and be honest with yourself: if I could have the AP the MMJ or the "original" for 20 bucks, which would it be? I have enough originals to know that sound. Lets put it this way, I hardly ever play the originals anymore. I dont play my AP records nearly as much as the Music Matters. You should sell thse Music Matters records and buy more of the AP selections. You will have no problem selling.
To me, its really not even close.
Or better yet, the Blue note classic series....
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