Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Sorry I assumed we all monitored these listings lol. Here’s one: Joe Henderson - Mode For Joe: 2x12", Album, Ltd, RE, RM, 180 For Sale | Discogs

 

It

means he works at Music Matters and has been resealing this records as a means of secondary income. This has been speculated / well known for a while. Dude sucks

 

I know that I’ve participated in those discussions. I’m just wondering about these new listings because I haven’t seen anything like this before where it’s regular discs in white jackets and not test pressings.

 

I assume these are just replacements that turned up when they flipped the cushions.

 

MMJ is likely out of jackets, but have excess pressings for those releases. If I were to guess, they are replacement disc from early on in case someone had issues with their records. But that is just a guess

 

Ugh.

Gross

 

This seems like a good deal for anyone looking for Up At Mintons: STANLEY TURRENTINE Up At Minton's MUSIC MATTERS 45RPM 2-LP NM Blue Note #0058 | eBay

 

boom...gone!

 

I just spent the most I have ever spent on a single record, but feel like I got a great deal

Art Blakey & the Jazz Messengers - Free For All SRX. $171 after shipping. Ouch, but…. I figure I will never see it cheaper again, and its a Top 5 hard bop session for me. This will be my first SRX as well

 

I have both the SRX 33 and the 45rpm. The latter is appreciably better, as the dynamic swings, the explosiveness, has much greater ease on the 45rpm, not to mention the greater openness of the midrange.

The SRX is very good, but this is the sort of music that is noticeably better cut at 45rpm. Similarly, the AP 45 of Moanin' is considered to be better than the recent 33 for the same reasons.

If you're averse to 33s, I understand and you'll be happy with the 33 SRX. I was, but took the suggestions of many here to try the 45. If you're open to it sometime and love this album, check out the 45.

 

I generally prefer 45, but those are considerably more expensive.

 

Wish I could say the same. I’ve spent more than that on a few MMJs. Never regretted it though. Every single one of them is FANTASTIC. Enjoy this one. It’s one of my favs.

 

I didn't know that. A bit after I had bought the SRX, MM had the 45 for $125. A bit underwhelmed that MM was gouging their stock at 250% above retail, upon recommendation I bought it, also thinking that I'd recoup whatever I'd pay for either.

 

I wish I could get that 45 for $125 now...

 

That is a great score. Congrats!

 

Or it’s just noticeably better cut with less treble.

 

Well, it IS better cut, partly because Kevin Gray was taking advantage of the better real estate offered by cutting at 45. The midrange is bigger and more spacious, the dynamics more easily rendered. What else would one want?

 

IMO, it's a mistake to think that the difference between the 33s and 45s is about speed.

Speed probably played a very minor role. The 33s were mostly just cut with a lot more top end. It was a very different approach. Your belief is that they couldn't have gotten the sound that they got on the 45s onto 33. I don't think there is much evidence for that. The Blue Note tapes are not like Classical music in terms of dynamics. Maybe they got a bit more bass on them. But we're talking minor differences compared to the elephant in the room: The 33s were just plain mastered bright.

As most of us have come to realize on this forum, aside from a recording itself, mastering is the king of how an album will sound. Since most of the 33s were cut pretty hot in the top end, that's the primary difference.

I've heard certain older cuts on 33 that sound very similar to the MMJ 45s. Listen to Bert Agudelo's cut of Hancock's Takin' Off if you ever get a chance. I was listening to it one day, left the room for a minute and when I came back I thought I had put on the MMJ 45.

The 2019 SRXs were a different matter. They were still brighter than the 45s they had done before, but they backed off the treble quite a bit from what I remember.

 

But you'd be wrong about the speed. It's been written about in these pages and elsewhere. Cutting at 45rpm allows for greater dynamics and detail. Whether a cutting and mastering engineer takes advantage of it is another story.

 

The main difference in the sound of the Music Matters 45s and 33s is about how they were EQd. It is far less about at which speed they were mastered.

 

That's part of it, but not all of it. Joe Harley has explained that they can do things at 45 that can't do at 33, and that's because of the physics involved.

But yes, the 33s were mastered brighter. But physics plays a big part. That's not an opinion.

 

And @stevehoffman has repeatedly stated that the speed at which records are cut has virtually nothing to do with how they sound.

Where do you rank Steve's expertise on this issue?

Physics do not play a "big part" in how the MMJ 45s and 33s differ. That's utter nonsense.

 

Always the same debates in these threads

Speed does play a significant role IMO. I’ve never heard a 33 that sounds like the 45s.

Yes, 45 allows for different mastering choices. But that’s only part of the equation. 45rpm also allows for the playback equipment to be at its best. And the result is an ease to the music and dynamics. Better pace and authority. And, perhaps most of all IME, the micro dynamics really come to life. The subtle inflections on a sustained note from the sax. The pulling away or leaning into the mic from a vocalist. The slight variations in attack on a high hat. That’s where the 45 rpm format excels to me. But we all have different ears and systems, and I realize not everyone has that take away. Our host has given me an opposite stance in conversation. However, I trust my ears and these are things I have noticed across the board when comparing similar (or the same) masterings at 33 and 45. YMMV

 

I very much value our host’s input on all things audio.

Yet I still trust my own ears more than anyone else’s opinion. Steve has told us he mastered Rumours more or less the same on the 33 and the 45. On my system, to my ears, there is a very noticeable and appreciable difference. Again, showing all the qualities I outlined in my post above. I’m not going to deny what I hear because someone else has said something different, regardless of their expertise.

FWIW, there is also evidence of folks just as qualified who state 45rpm does give benefit.

 

No, what is nonsense is someone telling other people about what they hear. I have hundreds of albums cut at 45. And many of those I also have cut by the same engineers at 33. The 45s all share similar characteristics that are not reproduced on the 33s. Maybe that’s not how you hear it. And that’s fine. However, being so dismissive of others experiences is the only thing nonsensical in this conversation