Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Starquest

    Starquest Forum Resident

    IMHO, that's at least partly on Hubbard. He was never the most tasteful soloist.
     
  2. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Point taken, but don’t confuse what is on those tapes with how RVG cut vinyl. The stuff MM did after Steve was no longer involved retained all the dynamics that were being displayed when he was. I believe that the big differences of opinion were how much deep bass should be added and how much top end should be retained. Using compression was never at issue.
     
  3. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Well, try listening to the LA recorded tracks on Miles’ Seven Steps To Heaven.

    Pure pain.
     
  4. Starquest

    Starquest Forum Resident

    I would if I didn't find Miles's 60-65 period so dull.
     
  5. Briskit

    Briskit “I don’t know karate, but I know ka-razy!”

    Location:
    St Kilda
    Um, any improvement on the AP reissue?
    One is on it’s way to me from Kansas...:cry:
     
  6. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    The AP is the only version I know.

    The NY tracks are fine.
     
  7. Briskit

    Briskit “I don’t know karate, but I know ka-razy!”

    Location:
    St Kilda
    Oh crap. I found the AP "Someday my Prince" a bit bright, but the lovely packaging encouraged me to try "Seven Steps"
    Wonder if this is why Mofi avoided them in their last bunch of Miles?
     
  8. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Seven Steps isn’t bright overall and it has some beautifully recorded piano on the NY tracks. It’s just the LA recordings did not come out as well and Miles is WAY too hot. Not just bright but just too damned loud!
     
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  9. recstar24

    recstar24 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    by the end of the 45 series and going into the start of the 33 series, it’s clear sonically MM really was locked in. The cafe Bohemia live sets I believe were the last of the 45’s dec 2013 released and really showcase the best of what MM could offer sonically.
     
    Tim1954 likes this.
  10. periclimenes

    periclimenes Hears the tape speed issues

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Try not to let the mastering worry you too much. I have an OG Japanese stereo pressing and it really sounds like garbage. Everything is muddy, and the bass sounds like it's being played in the next room over. That said, Seven Steps to Heaven and Joshua are such driving tracks that the album still gets lots of play. The atmosphere on the slower LA tracks is a nice contrast. There's plenty to love on this album even though it may leave some things to be desired from a fidelity standpoint. Miles is really searching for the next thing during this time so it is George Coleman's only studio appearance and Herbie Hancock's debut with Miles. I'm sure the AP release will make it sound as good as it can. Enjoy!
     
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  11. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    I'm not sure that is true. I recall reading that they dialed the dynamic range back a bit when they put out the 33 series, partly due to the limitations of the format, but partly to make them pop a bit more. You have to turn up the 45s more, but they sound more natural to me.
     
  12. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton
    I just picked up a sealed "Six Pieces of Silver" 45rpm today. I missed this one when it came out in 2011, and have been looking for a reasonably priced copy for a while. On opening it I can almost hear a sigh of relief from the record which has sat there sealed for 8 years - finally I can hear it saying I am going to be played :agree:
     
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  13. Piero

    Piero Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Italy
    Sorry,but what intend you for "KG & RR @ CA. ,KG @ CA. ,KG@ATM, KG&SH @ ATM. ?
     
  14. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    I agree with Steve on this issue. The differences are not about the speed (he adds cables as also having nothing to do with the differences, fwiw).

    Anyway, the only one I’ve heard any difference in is True Blue. The 45 seems just a touch more dynamic, but I still prefer the 33. Others that have been released on 33 and 45 show little to no difference in dynamics.

    Dynamics are a non-issue with any MM release, IMO. 33 or 45.

    As I mentioned, however, my list is strictly to do with the mastering timeline.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
  15. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Deadwax inscriptions.
     
  16. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    Great record. Silver had so many good ones but this is one of my faves.
     
  17. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Where did you read this and was this a quote from KG, RR or JH?
     
  18. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton
    Mine too - I can't wait to play it / its now clean and ready to go.
     
  19. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ CMO (Chief Musical Officer)

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    It was a long way back in this thread. A LONG way back. But JH has said (recently) that the 45rpm format, inherently, is the superior one for sound. But it's not the only factor.
     
  20. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Understood, but that doesn’t mean they dialed back the dynamics.
     
  21. recstar24

    recstar24 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    I’m with @AnalogJ on this side of the conversation. Ron has even told me that when it comes to pure unencumbered dynamics, you can’t beat the physics of the 45. Depending on the overall level of the tape and where things were recorded volume wise, as well as how much dynamic range is actually on the tape and session, I’m sure many of the 33’s were cut at a close enough level to the 45 where you can’t really hear a difference dynamic wise. But it’s very clear to my ears that on a good number of 33’s, compression was clearly applied to slow a better cut to lacquer but also to have the sound pop a little more. True Blue is a very obvious example in my system and ears, and at least with that example I agree with @AnalogJ ’s position.
     
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  22. dminches

    dminches Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cherry Hill, NJ
    Just to be clear, I am not saying that 45s can’t have more dynamics than 33s. My ears say they can. What I am asking is if Ron or Joe or Kevin actually said that during the cutting process they dialed back the dynamics for 33s.
     
  23. recstar24

    recstar24 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Ron never used those specific words with me, what he said (to the best of my memory of conversation) is that some of the 33’s based on how they were cut could not match the dynamics of a 45. The 45 format basically allows you to cut a really dynamic track uninhibited (as long as you can fit it comfortably on a side), but a 33 enforces some limitations dynamic wise that need to be accounted for. At least that’s what I inferred from our conversation and my own knowledge of the cutting process
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  24. musictoad

    musictoad Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I got around to acquiring Fuchsia Swing Song a little while back and am giving it it's second listen right now. Really love this session, better than Contours. It's not as crazy spastic as that album but retains Sam's raw energy. And Tony Williams always brings it. Love how the piano is captured, really full and present. Feels like everyone had a few cups of coffee before playing lol. In a good way.
     
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  25. Tim1954

    Tim1954 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    It’s a gem. I also prefer it to Contours and as a bonus I think it’s a better recording.
     
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