Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

I agree to an extent. Certainly titles which were redone later demonstrated amazing high frequency information. I tend not to like bright recordings, but those later 45s and the 33s have for the most part really come to sound “right” to me.

I used to believe what seems to be the prevailing narrative here that the 33s were cut to sound more like the originals. I no longer believe it is that simple. Especially reading some of SH’s comments about approaching RVG tapes, and also doing some deep sea reading at LJC, I personally believe MM making a change was far more about viewing RVG’s recordings with reverence. “Correcting” them was at some point no longer a viewpoint shared by all involved. At least that is my perception. Not to mention the OGs I’ve heard really just don’t sound like anything. They have their own sound.

Regardless I think the very best sounding Blue Note LPs I’ve ever heard are those 2011-2019 MM KGs. Sadly that trend took a nosedive with BN80 and TP, but hopefully will get back on track soon.

 

I've never heard that theory, quite the opposite.

There has never been anything come from MMJ that their guide for sound presentation were the originals.
Posted just this week on Facebook interview with Joe Harley, he explains how Rudy cut differently than
what Joe and Kevin came up with for their reissue philosophy.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=572169273547538

 

reverence is a great word to describe the feeling I’ve always got when I’ve spoken to Ron on his view of Blue Note and RVG. At a certain point in the series you do hear Ron and crew still fulfilling their vision of evoking the best from the master tapes while paying homage to that exciting, thrilling quality that so many of the OG RVG’s have.

 

The narrative I mentioned has been a somewhat prevalent theory here.

Nowhere have I ever seen MM say that they had a goal to have their LPs sound like Blue Note OGs. To extract what is on the tapes seems to be the goal. Especially since 2011.

In this thread however, it is a very different story when it comes to the 33 vs 45 “debate.” The typical belief seems to be that the 33s were EQd to sound more like the OGs. I personally don’t buy this notion, but it’s been fairly common speculation in this thread for years. If it’s news to you....welcome aboard.

 

I've been here 8 years and never heard this theory, but
good thing we can dispense with that nonsense now, it's completely made up.

 

Speaking of LJC, it is kind of interesting how much higher he ranks the MM33s to the 45s. In fact that seems to be the general belief there from what I’ve seen. I personally don’t think this is accurate but it’s well researched and thorough....

Blue Note recordings: guide to audio quality

 

I would say the consensus on the 33's is this take on it from the comments in that thread on LJC:

"If you want to get some crispy clean re-issues then go for some of the new 33rpm Music Matters LP’s.
I have actually bought 4 of them since they came out and all of them are excellent. They don’t have the
same vibe as the originals which is fine. But they do seem to be doing a good job of capturing what is
most likely the sound of the original master tapes which is their goal. Sometimes it’s nice to have both."

 

I agree that seems to be about the way they see it over there.

I just noticed in his list that, unless I am missing it, he forgot Classic! I suspect they would rank somewhere around the AP45/MM45 level for him but the whole list is a bit chaotic. Nonetheless, some great info throughout that whole page and even into the comments below.

 

I could be off and/or overgeneralizing, but I'm developing a theory that when it comes to mastering these albums, I'm either getting immaculate sounding drums/cymbals, or brassy and full horns. I tend to be more sensitive to drums than horns so I lean towards mastering that highlights the rhythm section. A great example is the MoFi 45 of Miles Smiles. Yeah Shorter sounds pinched off, but I'm not bothered by it enough for it to overcome the pristine sounding drums/cymbals.

I sort of feel like that's the trade-off with the MMJ 45s vs the 33s to some extent. Though I will say, Midnight Blue and Blue Hour, both 33s, sound absolutely immaculate.

 

Just got my latest order and spun The Golden 8 first. It does sound very different than the RVG stuff as others have noted. It's a little more bright and lively. But not overly so. It shimmers. And the music is killer.

 

Shrewd move. I just hope the dude opened one here and there and found some enjoyment. Maybe will

The search function on this site is not good. There is a fascinating post by Joe Harley in around ‘09 that I screensnapped, but I have no idea how to share it here. In any case he goes into exactly what you and many others think. Essentially it’s the old but true engineer answer that it’s ‘one or the other.’ I don’t know why it’s the case but apparently, to get the best overall sound, sometimes it comes down to horns versus drums/right channel backup dudes. The best sound, when it comes to mastering, must be focused on only one of the players. I do not want to go any further because his extensive reply is in here.
Just the cliff notes and more is available firsthand somewhere in here.

 

Wanted to stream a few of the titles on the cheaper end still available. Surprised Golden 8 isn’t on Apple Music. They have a ton of other Boland Clarke albums including Golden 8 encore, but not that one. Dang

Meanwhile playing Lee Way for the first time. I’ve a good Christmas wish list going, a few price drops or new SRXs would probably get me to finally make one more buy.

 

I’ve never really fallen for Cape Verdean or Song for my Father, but I’m really digging Stylings of Silver

Which other MM Horace silver titles are more like Stylings I should check out?

 

Horace Silver & the Jazz Messengers

Six Pieces of Silver

and, if you can track it down on Classic Records or elsewhere, Further Explorations of the Horace Silver Quintet.

When you get to Finger Poppin' you're getting into the Blue Mitchell/Junior Cook band that's a bit closer to the Song for My Father/Cape Verdean Blues material. If you like Stylings of Silver, best to go backwards.

 

There is a test pressing for sale at Acoustic Sounds.
Horace Silver Quintet-Further Explorations-Vinyl Test Pressing|Acoustic Sounds
I bought a regular copy of the Classic Records reissue of Further Explorations back in 2015, great record.

 

How does Hank Mobley Quintet rank in your mind to Stylings of Silver, looks like the same lineup pretty much and recorded two months apart.

 

I think all the records by the early Jazz Messengers are worth grabbing.

 

With the Mobley Quintet on SRX looking realllly hard to find for some reason, how is the 2x45? It's one of the earliest MM releases from 2010, does the 45 hold up, or should I wait and see if I can find an affordable SRX?

Discogs has a few SRX starting at $110, which is way more than I want to go for that title. MM has the 45 for $50, but if the SRX sound is much better, I'd rather save my pennies and see if I can grab an SRX.

 

The 45 is KPG@ATM, no SH in the dead wax, fwiw.

I had the 45 and sold it after getting the SRX. But I got the SRX when it was still readily available. The price you're seeing would put it out of my range today.

Perhaps MM will bring the SRX back in stock at some point. I would expect additional SRX titles to be announced in December, based on the vague hints that have been dropped here and on their Facebook page.

 

Did you find the SRX of Hank was a big improvement over the 45?

 

I can't say I did a dedicated AB of that title, but what I like about the SRX is the reduction in noise floor, providing greater resolution. I listen quite a bit on headphones, at night, and this has been apparent to me with the new formula, which I think lives up to its stated aims. Generally speaking, you can hear a bit more reverb tail, shimmering cymbals, band members' vocalizations, squeaking kick drum pedals, and all. Each sound seems to have a bit more space around it, for better and for worse. Kind of like putting the tape under a microscope. I enjoy it, but I would say the difference is more subtle than drastic.

 

Thanks Gabe! I do a lot of MM listening on cans on the weekend too so this helps. I did find this Pepsi challenge from @Bryce. Less of a difference to his ears than I’d expect. So I may end up getting the 45 since it’s reasonable if the SRX is gone for good.
Music Matters Definitive Blue Note 45 RPM and 33 & 1/3 RPM vinyl series (pt7)

 

Spinning the SRX of Free For All. I've always thought Blakey's drums were overloaded on this recording and that will never change, but this is a seminal session and it explodes with energy.

Also, I think I got incredibly lucky with my timing of grabbing Blue & Sentimental... it's now listed as Out of Print.

 

Just finishing up Blue & Sentimental. Very smokey. Reminds me of Blue Hour. Really glad I snagged it up before it was long gone.

I listened to Jubilee Shout!!! yesterday and didn't post thoughts so I'll do that now. First thing that stood out was the way it sounds. That master tape is as fresh as a daisy. Just stupid vibrant and present sounding. I agree with whoever has said that that music slides off on the last two tracks into extremely generic territory. But it sounds so good I can forgive it.

Also, it's gotten lonely in here. I feel like I'm the only one snatching up titles right now and posting about my newfound discoveries.

Open up your wallets and join me!

 

Blue & Sentimental is an amazing album. A top 5 MMJ for me. Ike’s tone is fantastic and Grant just lays it down. I do find the high pitched whine at points (I’m guessing the tape machine?) a little distracting but the music is just awesome. Nice pick up!

I have a couple of new MMJs waiting for me when I get home - Destination Out and Search For the New Land, both 45rpm. Quite excited to give these a spin along with the new MoFi Dire Straits albums