Music Matters Prices

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Dougthesnail, Jan 5, 2019.

  1. Dougthesnail

    Dougthesnail Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    A little confused with the pricing of their titles. Do they base it on supply/demand? Or are there other factors in play? I'm seeing them range from $47-99 per title and to buy their entire 2019 catalogue is $700 for 12 Lp's which is almost $60 each. Is their any reason to pay their premium over Analogue Prod/Acoustic sounds? They offer some of the same titles for way less.
     
  2. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    I'd put my money on what label I liked better regardless of the cost and I'd also research a little feedback on specific titles.

    As far as what a label charges for their services and product is up to them. You do have to understand not all title licensing cost the same for all new reissue labels to buy. Nor is the overhead for each label to operate in their specific location.
     
  3. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    MM does dynamic pricing and jacks the price up as stock goes down.

    A little frustrating to be honest. The new SRX series is currently $60 per title. You save a whopping $20 by buying all at once
     
  4. riverrat

    riverrat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    The long-running and extensive thread on Music Matters 33 and 45 rpm titles, includes quite a bit of discussion of this topic.

    To try to summarize: For several years, MM sold their products in house, but also wholesaled them to other sellers. Some sellers started to jack the prices up (price gouging to many of us) when stock got low. Some even charged more than "list" to begin with. So MM discontinued wholesaling to other sellers and brought everything in house, apparently fed up with other sellers profiting excessively off their (MMs) hard work and effort to get the titles in print. At first after this change, MM didn't do the "dynamic pricing" thing, but soon started to, and continue to do so to this day.

    This practice has alienated some buyers. I don't really like it, and was fortunate enough to be aware of their catalog and quality in time to pick up the titles I wanted before prices went up. But I respect the company owners' right to run their business as they please. Their lps are second to none in both mastering and pressing quality, and quite limited editions. You get the impression the entire operation is more of a labor of love than huge profit making venture, and I am very grateful for their products, given the exorbitant cost of original and lack of options for other quality pressings. Even the Japanese reissues are often more expensive.

    That is my take, having monitored the situation for awhile now..
     
  5. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I still see MM releases at many other sellers. Are those just old stock from before they stopped wholesaling, then?

    I was quite hoping they would have the SRX titles available elsewhere, mostly so I could mitigate shipping costs, but also because I have heard some negative experiences with pressing quality and a lack of subsequent service from MM. Acoustic Sounds and MD have phenomenal service and replace defective items in a heartbeat, no questions asked.
     
  6. Dougthesnail

    Dougthesnail Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I understand that, but it doesn't make much sense to have the highest prices in an already crowded marketplace, nor does it make sense to increase them based on a product being more popular. It's called greed and it's what contributes to customers walking away.
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Pick up a fast car, burn my name in the road

    Part of the reason vinyl is off my shopping list
     
  8. DeRosa

    DeRosa Forum Resident

    The new SRX series are more expensive because of the new vinyl formula.
    Their claim is the formula is superior to anything, and the reason it costs more.
    For comparison, MOFI also increased their one step titles from $99 to $125
    when they recently switched to using the same (or similar) new premium vinyl.

    That's a different issue than the pricing for the standard MM titles has gone
    up as they get closer to being out of stock. These are limited qty reissues,
    the deal MM has with Blue Note is for a set qty, so when they're gone,
    that's it. That's at the heart of the prices going up when they down to the end.
     
  9. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    It's not greed, and if your one of those guy that the big bad markets keeping you from buying what you want we can stop here.
    AP is located in Salina, Kansas
    Music Matters is in Laguna Beach, CA

    And your in Canada but with all due respect do your think these two reissue companies have the same operating cost if they where even the same size company?

    Just the cost of living in Laguna Beach is at least doubled opposed to Salina, Kansas and really I'd say three times as much. So labor cost alone is going to be far greater between these two companies. Real estate is at least 5 times greater in cost and we can go on and on. California is a whole other world in cost of operation opposed to Kansas. So if a business wants to put a product out here it's going to cost more, that's simple economics.
     
    Dave likes this.
  10. riverrat

    riverrat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    That would be my guess. They quit wholesaling after the 45 program ended, somewhere in the middle of the first 33 program, if I recall. So I think there are a fair number of 45s still out in the wild, and maybe some of the earlier 33s.

    I've heard that too, although I've not had to return any lps, so I can't say personally. Again, I think the management at MM got fed up with the hassles and the certain percentage of really nitpicky people (of which I think there are more in the audiophile world than the general population) and started to take a harder line with returns at some point. I think some folks felt that the records should be perfect for $35 or $40 (or more for 45s) and while don't strongly disagree, I personally can deal with a tic or two before I freak out and ask for an exchange. It's vinyl, a physical product, and there will always be some imperfections.

    That being said, if a record is clearly defective, I expect the seller to make it right. But the point at which a replacement is warranted is sort of a gray area..
     
  11. Dougthesnail

    Dougthesnail Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Yes labor can contribute the cost, however the cost of each title is different. If it were a labor issue they would be charged the same across the board not higher/lower based on popularity.
     
  12. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    Yes and when each title is different, the label owning the rights to the music can charge different prices also for the licensing to do the reissue. Then we also have the fact prices all around the board change over time. MM might have paid Licensing fees on a title to do 5000 copies 8 years ago, and they pressed and made them all then, some still in stock. Then they get another license for another title this past year and made all 5000 copies, but the overhead was higher for numerous things for this one just because of the span of time.

    I don't know about you but I want the old price when the record first came out. My record store has stock of records that he priced when they came in. He doesn't change the mark-up price on old stock, it's based on what he paid for that title at the time. Lots of times I find a OOP record that's been sitting there, the new going price might be $100 and before it was OOP is was a $25 record. I'd rather pay the $24 for it than him moving the price up to the current going price.

    We are seeing a demand in records the last few years, all prices are going though the roof new and old. Everyone is raising their prices across the product line of supplies to produce a record. The cumulative prices of everything hits the end result and us as the buyers.

    That said I'm not trying to carry a touch for MM, I'm actually more of a AP fanboy:p
     
  13. KipsCleanGrooves

    KipsCleanGrooves Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Santa Barbara, CA
    The new SRX vinyl is worth every penny. The records are better than the original first pressings, in some cases by far. If you think they are to expensive buy the $19.95 Blue Note reissues. If you want the best sounding albums buy the Music Matters. The choice is yours, nobody is holding a gun to your head.
     
  14. Dougthesnail

    Dougthesnail Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I would like that price as well and as you mentioned in a previous post I am in Canada and our dollar is awful right now, so it would cost me well over $100 after shipping plus import fees to buy any MM release. $100 for a record isn't a deal breaker, but for something that isn't significant from a historical standpoint (ie; First pressing, or long oop) it's a little much to ask, especially when I can get the AP reissue for a fraction of the price which probably sounds nearly the same. I understand MM has the best packaging from what I've heard, but I buy my records to listen to, not to look at pretty gatefold packaging. I'm only 22 and just started collecting this past year, so I missed the boat on most of these, hopefully the tapes will be brought out again someday and I can grab some.
     
  15. Dougthesnail

    Dougthesnail Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    For the average Joe $64 + is a lot to ask for a single album. I have Blue Train Blue note 1577 75th and also the AP release at 45 rpm, not my preferred format but after hearing it I'd never touch a blue note 75 again.
     
  16. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    I would go with AP, as I said I really like their stuff and a lot of that has to do with their pressing plant.

    A gain I feel AP is tops in this, packaging is outstanding.

    Again I like the work Quality Record Pressing is doing. You can have the best mastering in the world but the pressing plant can really f-it up. If your just starting to get into this, you don't always need to buy something like a AP record to have a great record.

    Here's a tip, go to Acoustic Sounds website, click on all vinyl until you get around 300000+ records and see the covers. In the search box on the page put in "Quality Record Pressing" You should now see around 800 titles. Acoustic Sounds owns Analogue Production & Quality Record Pressing. By filtering with QRP it will bring up all the records they are pressing because AS will let you know that in each listings. You will find nice titles that are only $20 that other labels are having them press and all the way to the AP records, box sets and so forth. Again a good sounding record needs to be plated and pressed good on good vinyl.
     
  17. Dougthesnail

    Dougthesnail Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Thanks for the advice! I've purchased quite a few AP titles and a few non AP QRP pressed as well. Dead quiet vinyl and near-perfect pressing.
     
    4-2-7 likes this.
  18. btf1980

    btf1980 Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC
    How many average joes are buying Music Matters records at any price point? Nothing there is for the average joe.
     
    Eigenvector, Gumboo and recstar24 like this.
  19. recstar24

    recstar24 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Agreed. This is very much a niche product in a already niche market. Audiophile jazz vinyl consumers is like 1% of the 1% lol.

    This is such a weird discussion because I've always been of the mindset that if something is too expensive, or if you assess that something is not good value, then don't buy it lol. Clearly there are plenty of us wackos that feel it is worth it and are enjoying it. Otherwise, just find any of the numerous versions and reissues that will satisfy what $ you are looking for.
     
    John Murray and btf1980 like this.
  20. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Depends on the provided source and the mastering. I bought a $16 Blue Note copy of Grant Green's Idle Moments fully knowing that it was mastered by Bernie Grundman. Sounds terrific but I am curious about the MM version which is mastered by Kevin Gray.

    In your case, it appears the Blue Train copy you're referring to on Blue Note was mastered by Alan Yoshida.
     
  21. Maltman

    Maltman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Vancouver Canada
    I bought 6 of the 75th Anniversary Blue Note reissues recently. Of the 6 only Grant Green’s Idle Moments is decent. Maiden Voyage has a chip out of the edge and a significant edge warp. Shorter’s Speak no Evil has so much surface noise as to be unplayable. Both are going back. The plant that pressed these should be ashamed. I had to do a serious wash job on them all to remove the residual surfactant. It’s sacriligeous use of the Blue Note name.
     
  22. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Forum Resident

    Music Matters is in Laguna Beach? Wow, sounds like I better get ready to move! Seriously though, Ron is in Oxnard, CA and I live in San Clemente.
     
  23. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Forum Resident

    Well said!
     
  24. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Not sure if this is the proper arena for this question, but what other titles from that series are Grundman mastered? Or that have decent sound?
     
  25. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Peninsula
    That's where Google puts the company, if your not there then I'd talk to Google.

    Where is the pressing plant located? are they farmed out to be pressed?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019

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