Music of the Spheres - The Ultimate 13th Floor Elevators' Vinyl Box Set

Again - I must disagree due to the facts..

You can detect sample rate by simply looking at where the high frequencies are measured -if you see over 22,000 cycles per channel - you automatically have your answer it was recorded over 16 bit resolution because you cannot see frequencies registered over that mark on 16/44 because it will never support it. There were some audio cards that would record 16 bits 48 khz - but nothing like 16/64 or 16/88 16/96.

You of course have to have your system set up to analyze a higher frequency audio recording to begin with.

It's a simple method of deduction.

I'll break it down :

If the release was from original tape with typical high frequencies extended beyond 32,000 cycles - and it was put on vinyl without alteration
this would show up on a Sonograph that supports 24 bit audio as full range frequency of hitting (for example) 32Khz

If the same source material mastered to CD is shown on a sonograph and played back - 16 bit those 32,000 cycles will show up as dithered at 22,000 and
no further.

This is the simple question that can be answered in a glance with the tools I speak of. If you play back the HEADSTONE vinyl release through a 24 bit system that supports resolution ABOVE 22khz per channel does it brickwall at 22KHZ or do high frequencies dance above it?

You can't get blood from a stone so the solution is very simple.

 

I don't have the info you want, but I did have the box and got rid of it. I was hoping but was let down. The SQ is just not very good IMO. It's not bad, considering, but it's not analog, not IMO. It is, once again, like getting CDs pressed to vinyl.

A real disappointment because I love the music and dearly wanted it to sound better than what I'd been used to. It's more designed for completists and collectors than for audiophiles. And yes, I know none of it was originally recorded very well. Still, the original vinyl I've heard and owned in the past sounded better.

Sad.

 

I don't know if there exist audio cards that can record 16/96 or not, but I can easily master audio at that configuration in software. I could then use that file to press vinyl. Same with a 24/44 file. My contention is that there is no way to tell the bit depth of the source used for vinyl by analyzing the audio from the vinyl. You keep bringing up frequency cutoff, but that has nothing to do with bit depth. A file with 16 bit depth and 96khz sample rate is going to cut off at the same frequency as a file with 24 bit depth and 96khz sample rate. I know how to tell sample rate by looking at frequency cutoff, but I am saying there is no way to know bit depth of the source by looking at graphs. Bit depth doesn't have to do with frequency cutoff. Noise floor would be the only way to try and tell the bit depth, but the vinyl noise is going to obscure that.

As for dither. If you were to spot noise shaped dither on the vinyl, then yes, it would be a good guess that it was sourced from 16 bit. However, you can still have dither when going from 32 bit to 24 bit. Also, the absence of dither in no way would indicate it was from 24 bit. Since it's possible it was truncated or flat dithered.

In general, yes, if you see no frequencies over 22 then you can assume it was 44/16 and if you see frequencies indicating it was a 96k transfer, then you can assume it was 24 bit. But it's not certain and the graph is not telling you anything of the bit depth. It's very possible a vinyl with a cutoff of 44 was actually mastered from a 44/24 file and although very unlikely, it's possible a vinyl with frequency extended up to 48khz was mastered from a 96/16 file.

If you really are just interested in knowing if the vinyl is 44 or 96 sourced, then you are right, that can be known. I do not agree that you can then discover the source's bit depth with any certainty.

 

Thanks for your details - much appreciated. Funny thing is I bought the CD set (3 eyed men) when it was released for my girlfriend and I'm just getting around to listening to the actual 'quality' of the transfers and was very disturbed by how they could turn something that could have been handled with care
(all the graphics and epherma certainly were - but I guess not for all customers - hearing stories of getting bent cd covers ect) and turned the Cds into
nothing more than coasters IMO . You are so right that is for completists - but at this point in the game - it should be refined and beautiful - especially if what Paul Drummond is saying and had the actual source material right in his bloody hands.

Now from your reply I get the impression this Vinyl set is like those Rolling stones -remasters- from a few years ago - Analogue to digital to analogue. How poopy is that?

If no one has heard Charly (now under the banner International Artists) releases of the 13th floor stuff - skip it and save your dollars and visit the Texas Psych group where the ornery but passionate leader over there has compiled the rarest and best Vators material that one can download in lossless format . I don't think
any of it has been offered in 24/96 but it's still better than what any commercial outfit is offering.. (Paradise Found has the Contact sessions on it)

 

Yeah, it leaves you super skeptical over 'improvements' in SQ. Just the fact someone pressed some records out of whatever files doesn't make it better. I bought a reissue of Erickson's The Evil One about a year ago, a two-lp set from the EU and instantly said "DAMN!" when I set down the needle -- lifeless digital pressed to vinyl. I have the original 1980 US single LP produced by CCR's Stu Cook and it's no great shakes as a recording, but it beats the pants off the reissue for life in the grooves. Doesn't have If You Have Ghosts or Mine Mine Mind, which is why I got the reissue. Live, get ripped off, and learn.