Music on Vinyl Gold Label

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by James Glennon, Jan 21, 2011.

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  1. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Having read a lot on this forum and having seen many Music on Vinyl titles I am more confused than ever about this label. I was of the impression that they were a Dutch label who had a licence to press artists on the Sony label.

    Well today, I was in Tower Records and they have all the individual Bob Dylan mono titles. The Music on Vinyl label is Gold (not the usual silver/black) the sleeves say Printed in USA. I asked to see one of the LPs and the label says Printed in USA and even more importantly the deadwax had loads of information 886917151 (handwritten) MOVLP245 (stamped) and the most important thing of all it has STERLING (rks handwritten) also.

    I have made unfavourable comments about the Music on Vinyl Dutch pressings I purchased and because the Dutch pressings of the Jimi Hendrix (analog releases) didn't have STERLING in the deadwax.

    Does anybody know if Sony are using the Music On Vinyl logo for US pressings?

    JG
     
  2. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    It doesn't seem likely. What would they have to gain?

    I saw the Dylan MoV titles in HMV in London's Oxford Street and noticed the sleeves were printed in the USA. My theory is, Sony went to great lengths in this case to preserve as far as possible the original packaging and labels. Therefore, uniquely in this case, the same packaging and labels have also been retained by MoV which has imported the labels and sleeves from the US to maintain authenticity. According to my theory the vinyl itself is pressed by MoV at the Record Industry plant in Haarlem, the Netherlands. However, again unusually in this case and perhaps reflecting the importance of the project, they have actually used stampers taken from the same mothers as the stampers used in the US and the only thing to tell them apart is the addition of the MoV catalogue number in the deadwax of the MoV stampers.

    That's my theory but that's all it is - a theory. And it doesn't encompasss the gold stickers!

    I will definitely be picking up some of these MoV pressed titles. I'm not a big Dylan fan and don't want the whole box set but I would like to buy the three most popular titles and for the most part I've had extremely good experiences with the MoV titles I've bought. For me, it's an added incentive if these titles look authentic and don't have "Music on Vinyl" plastered all over them and I would guess that's why it's been done this way.
     
  3. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    I think you could be correct.
     
  4. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I posted on the other thread about the Bob Dylan Mono boxset asking a fellow member was there any initials after the STERLING stamp and he confirmed no there wasn't. The MOV vinyl has STERLING rke (handwritten after it), curious!

    I have stayed well away from any MOV titles when I saw the Hendrix analog weren't from the US stampers! Hopefully the Dylan LPs will change all that!

    JG

    PS: Tower also had Cheap Trick Live at Budokan, now I wonder what stampers were used there!
     
  5. Satrus

    Satrus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    You could probably tell from the 'look' of the vinyl whether it is pressed in Holland or the U.S.A.? However, you may have to buy the title before doing that unless Tower are especially accommodating!

    I think MoV undoubtedly produces some very good 'product' but they need to re-orientate the business more in the direction of audiophile considerations and values. I recently exchanged a series of e-mails with Mark Klinkhammer of MoV on this very topic and it was encouraging :righton:to find that he was interested in what I had to say.

    MoV is doing the Jayhawks reissues also so I am hoping for good things when they come out in Europe.
     
  6. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    I bought the Music on Vinyl Blonde on Blonde Mono and it has printed in the USA on the sleeve and the inside label.The deadwax has...

    88697761051-LP7-A (handwritten) 88020 1A MOVLP245 (stamped) STERLING (stamped) RKS (handwritten)
    88697761051-LP7-B (handwritten) 88020 1B MOVLP245 (stamped) STERLING (stamped) RKS (handwritten)
    etc, etc, for sides 3 and 4.

    I enquired from another forum member about his US boxset version of the Dylan Lps and they all have STERLING but don't have the initials RKE (handwritten) in the deadwax.

    All the previous MOV titles I had seen have Black/Silver stickers on the front, the Dylan LPs all have gold stickers.

    Is it possible that it is a Dutch pressing with American sleeves and labels, it would seem so.

    Personally I am not a big MOV fan, because I was going to purchase the Jimi Hendrix Analog issues but none of them have STERLING (where they were cut all analog) in the deadwax which leads me to believe they were done from a high res files.

    The Back to Vinyl European pressings of Van Morrison, ZZ Top, James Taylor, Rickie Lee Jones and Warren Zevon are all pressed from the US stampers cut by Kevin/Steve. Also some of the sleeves were US versions with real hard cardboard type covers.

    Unless MOV move in that direction I wouldn't be interested in their LPS, preferring to buying the American equivalents instead.

    It just begs the question if the US LPs have the mastering information in the deadwax, why don't the equivalent MOV titles?

    JG

    PS: For your information the Blonde on Blonde was €29.99, the single Dylan Lps are €21.99.
     
  7. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    BTW, the single LPs can be had for £16.99 from What Records in the UK.

    I felt the same way as you about the Hendrix titles and bought several on the Sony Legacy label only to find them very ticky, more so than I was prepared to accept. So then I tried the MoV and oh joy! They were absolutely perfectly pressed as well as sounding indistinguishable from the US versions (as you would expect if they were high-res transfers). Since then I've been converted to MoV and have bought quite a few titles with overwhelmingly a very positive experience. However I do have some sympathy with the argument that there's very little point in going back to analogue LPs if they're made using a digital process.

    Specifically on the Dylan - it is indeed curious. Without seeing them side-by-side, it's hard to tell if the stampers are from the same mother or if the MoV one was cut separately. Is the long number in the same handwriting, for example? Could the "RKS" be the initials of an MoV cutter?
     
  8. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    WSterling provided the plates, so MOV wouldn't have cut it in the first place. If it was cut by someone at MOV then it wouldn't have STERLING!

    Here are the stickers,

    1. Jeff Buckley Grace

    2. Bob Dylan Blond on Blond

    JG
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Yovra

    Yovra Collector of Beatles Threads

    The thing is: they refuse to be clear about the sources/matrices/masters/files they use. The vinyl I've hear is quiet and it sounds good, but if you want to claim you're an "Audiophile" label you should be clear about where the sound is coming from.
     
  10. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    True! So they must be from the same mothers.

    The stickers seem to have been done specially for the Dylan LPs, since they even have the LP title on them. They must have high hopes for this series but it's a challenge with the Sundazed versions still out there in the retail market, selling side by side at a lower price.
     
  11. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland

    I contacted Michael Fremer (always very helpful) regarding the Music On Vinyl Bob Dylan Mono reissues, and here is what he said...

    ''I've got your answer from box producer Steve Berkowitz and from Greg Calbi:

    ''RKS - Ryan Smith - is an engineer who works @ Sterling Sound in NYC as a mastering engineer. He sometimes works with and in accordance with George Marino.

    ''The U.S.A. versions of the MONO Bob Dylan LP's, recently released by Sony/Legacy, were supervized, eq'd and cut by George Marino @ Sterling Sound, NYC.
    The MOV Euro vinyl versions were supervized and eq'd by George Marino, and cut in the same room - on the same lathe by Ryan Smith @ Sterling Sound, NYC. So the MOV have the same sources - same eq - same lathe - same process - ideally planned to have the same result.''

    JG
     
  12. Jim B.

    Jim B. Senior Member

    Location:
    UK
    Why do it twice? I don't understand, they could have made both versions from the Marino mothers. Sounds a bit odd.
     
  13. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville

    I wonder if he'd be open to suggestions for titles. They've reissued two Manic Street Preachers LP's :)righton: ) but picked the two least essential titles out of their catalog (Know Your Enemy and the Greatest Hits album). I hope he doesn't base future Manics reissues on the sales of those two LP's.
     
  14. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Maybe it is because Music On Vinyl are releasing all the Bob Dylan Monos as individual titles and not as a boxset!

    Either way it is a step in the right direction! I was really disappointed to find the Jimi Hendrix analog reissues didn't have STERLING in the deadwax, which would mean they were done from high-res files!

    JG
     
  15. bibijeebies

    bibijeebies vinyl hairline spotter

    Location:
    Amstelveen (NL)
    The most frustrating thing is something that Yovra also pointed out earlier on: they are not forthcoming on information providing specific details on sources used, although it seems things are - slowly - progressing. They are releasing the Jayhawks classics on vinyl 31/01/2011 and I asked them this recently: Who mastered the Jayhawks reissues and what is in the deadwax?. The MoV-admin answered: Vic Anesini and MOVLP263 / MOVLP264.
     
  16. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    You don't know either way for certain but it makes you wonder. Bought the US pressings to be on safe side. I think Back2vinyl bought both of some titles and didn't notice a great difference. BTW my Hendrix are dead quiet all through apart from a few clicks/pops on last track of New Rays. The MOV Dylan look like a good deal given the cheapest price for box is £200 in UK and most at £250.
     
  17. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    What I find strange is that the LPs were pressed and printed in the USA. Why not just use the stampers and press in Europe!

    JG
     
  18. back2vinyl

    back2vinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    I agree. Well done for getting that answer, JG, but l'm as baffled as JimB. I can see why an extra set of stampers was needed for Europe but I can't understand why it was necessary to have a fresh cutting process in order to produce them, with a different engineer. It would be fun to do a side-by-side comparison but I don't suppose anyone ever will. Never mind - one of these days I'll pick up two or three of the MoV Dylans in any case.

    This is the Hendrix titles we're talking about, right? So you're saying, same question as for the Dylan titles, right? Why go through a whole different cutting process when you could just use the same stampers that Sony used in the US or a duplicate set from the same mother?

    Good question.

    Warner/Rhino seems to use identical stampers in the US and Europe for its Back to Vinyl LPs so why can't Sony and MoV do the same?

    I can only think it's something to do with the fact that Sony and MoV are separate companies and there must be some point in the chain where MoV takes ownership of the production of the titles and this point lies just before the stage at which the stampers are cut - if that makes any sense at all.
     
  19. James Glennon

    James Glennon Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
     
  20. Billy Hunt

    Billy Hunt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cardiff, Wales.
    If any one in the UK wants to try one of these Amazon have Times They Are A-Changin' for £9.99

    Times They Are A-Changin'

    I had the last in stock but the price has remained the same on the updated listing.
     
  21. tinymontgomery

    tinymontgomery Forum Resident

    Lots of £9.99 Dylan vinyl on the HMV website, of all places. They appear to be the Sundazed issues...or HMV can sell you the Music On Vinyl versions for three times the price. Hmmm.
     
  22. Billy Hunt

    Billy Hunt Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cardiff, Wales.
    HMV do have some great prices on vinyl - Sony Hendrix, Rolling Stones, Rhino re-issues etc., but some of their other prices are just silly.
     
  23. nesboy43

    nesboy43 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I have a Michael Jackson Dangerous MOV that at the has the normal black sticker at top right and then at the bottom left there is a white sticker that says Made in England. My Invincible MOV has the black sticker but no Made in England sticker.
     
  24. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Just purchased this. Played side one and a very good pressing. Sounds good if a little hard/bright sounding. Also purchased Focus Moving Waves. Again superb pressing but is cut louder and sounds a little hard while a bit more detailed than original. Again uses different label (white 'Dutch Masters').

    You can't wind this up loud like an original so makes me suspicious of digital source or digital delay lines used in mastering. It is dead quiet which is hard to achieve with original UK pressings. The lack of definitive sources (Dylan's excepted) lead me to think MOV are just a better version of Simply Vinyl.
     
  25. SergioRZ

    SergioRZ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Portugal
    Are there other MOV reissues with non-typical matrix inscriptions (such as Sterling or anything indicating that the mastering was not made by MOV)?

    Are the gold stickers in any way related to the source of the mastering?
     
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