Depression and anxiety can be brought on by economic and other outside influence and circumstance. So perhaps they are not necessarily mental health issues. For instance, being depressed that you've got no money isn't a sign of mental illness. Social anxiety probably occurs in most people. Some hide it or deal with it better than others. Mental illness of other kind perhaps requires a creative mind to begin with, whether the person be an artist or not. That's if we assume that the symptoms are in fact delusional. I wouldn't necessarily make that assumption, but there might be a creative element to it all the same.
You got me down the rabbit hole looking into the history of Brian's condition. How one quack doctor almost destroyed Brian Wilson’s career (nypost.com) "After reappraising his mental health and diagnosing him with schizoaffective disorder, a team of UCLA doctors concluded that Landy’s prescriptions had done more damage to Wilson than Wilson had ever done to himself through his own intake." There's also this great article from Scientific American about Wilson's condition: Brian Wilson: A Cork on the Ocean - Scientific American "Unfortunately, the importance of Wilson's work was soon overshadowed in the popular consciousness by his steady and very public mental decline. In his early 20s, the typical age of onset for many psychotic disorders, social discomfort, depression and paranoia gave way to frank hallucinations and delusions. Over the following decade his condition progressed, and for a period of years he was unable to function consistently as a member of society, much less at his previous level as a hit-record producer. Progressive mental illness such as that experienced by Wilson causes a breakdown in “executive function”—the ability of the brain's frontal lobes to plan, coordinate and execute, much the way a CEO would direct the operations of a business. Cognitive neuroscientists are still debating the definition of executive function and its influence on behavior. But Wilson's case provides powerful evidence of its sway...." Then there's this paper from 2009 by Stefano Roberto Belli (PDF) A psychobiographical analysis of Brian Douglas Wilson: Creativity, drugs, and models of schizophrenic and affective disorders (researchgate.net) "Initially diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic by the controversial Dr. Landy in 1983, Wilson was heavily medicated with anti-psychotic drugs; so much so that he developed tardive dyskinesia (Carlin, 2006, p. 271). All sources referring to the medication he was taking until 1992 are no more specific than mentioning ‘psychotropic drugs’, though the development of tardive dykinesia implicates medication with phenothiazines, and it is likely that chlorpromazine would have been used in such an instance (Starks & Braslow, 2005). Wikipedia: "Tardive dyskinesias are involuntary movements of the lips, tongue, face, trunk, and extremities which occur in patients with prolonged exposure to dopamine antagonists or antipsychotic medications." If you read the side effects of Chlropromazine, it's a laundry list of all the symptoms associated with Wilson during the Landy years. Chlorpromazine - Wikipedia The paper continues with Brian's reassessment.. "Psychiatric evaluations between 1992 and 1994, after Wilson had left Landy’s care, favoured diagnoses of schizoaffective disorder and mild bipolarity. This led to a change in Wilson’s prescriptions: to anti-depressants, and in a far more moderate dosage (Carlin, 2006, p. 280). These appear to have led to a greater lucidity and subjective sense of well being, which may however have been due to his transference to a less oppressive environment: whilst in Landy’s care, Wilson was separated from his family, and put under strict regimes of diet and timetabling. The positive mood effects following this change of medication are said to have come together with a reduction in the frequency and severity of Wilson’s auditory hallucinations. At the time of writing, Wilson’s hallucinations are still present, but are episodic, and he reports feeling better able to cope with them (Ligerman & Leaf, 2004). Whether this is a primary psychopharmacological effect of the new medication or a secondary effect due to his improved emotional state is difficult to say."
The Scientific American article also has this great excerpt that sums up the topic of this thread nicely: "Mental illness does not make a person creative. But certain individuals who are endowed with artistic vision and particular technical skills can, at times, transform the loosening of linkages into inspired artistic associations. These novel associations can be difficult for the individual to harness, however, because a person with psychosis is betrayed by his own disordered perceptions. It is a frighteningly lonely disease, which Wilson perhaps knowingly portrayed in 1971 when he wrote “'Til I Die.” The song's lush music, reminiscent of the sea, stands in stark juxtaposition to the lyrics: “I'm a cork on the ocean / Floating over the raging sea.... I'm a leaf on a windy day / Pretty soon I'll be blown away....”"
Even then it was probably too glib and inaccurate, nowadays with our greater understanding of neuroscience, cognition, Creativity and pathology it is kinda like comparing apples and fish.
It is worth considering that a certain population of artists mentioned here that (ab)used LSD/acid may or may have been self medicating and may or may not have experienced damage beyond just that caused by excessive use. As there was different levels of purity and the advent of speed (STP) with LSD/acid that we don’t fully know/understand the damage/psychic break it wrought, other than certain incapacities and personality changes (from who they once were).
This seems dangerously simplistic and revisionist. There is plenty out there on Syd that shows diminished capabilities and functionality that is beyond mere burnout. My understanding was that he got disability support which I would assume came with some sort of diagnosis. I could be wrong.
None of the above is why I mentioned it. Peter still had issues even after he returned to public life. He continued to remain on medication but was able to largely manage his life. The reports of what Skip did suggests that LSD and other substances may have induced psychosis. This isn’t about me. It’s my opinion. Don’t like it? Of course I’ve done quite a few substances. It isn’t just a snapshot in time, Skippy wasn’t the same afterwards. There’s no shame in what happened to these folks it’s just tragic. No one is trying (here) to romanticize ir just to recognize the damage that can occur. It’s also based on what those that knew them have stated over the years.
The problems that occur also end up being indulged sometimes. I’d also point out that some mental health meds (particularly in the 60’s, 70’s, heck until recently), can make many of these folks worse. For example, when Green had his breakdown some of the meds the psychiatrists prescribed for him made things worse for him. Numbing someone into submission isn’t really the best option but to try and make them as functional as possible. I always think back to the fact that Green stated he had to learn to play guitar against because the medicari0n did as much damage as whatever had unmoored him.
I hadn't even realized Jim Gordon had passed away until reading the first post in this thread. Incredibly sad news, and a little scary to me that I had to find out here because most news sources I consume seem to have wholly ignored it, plausibly due to the horrid nature of his crime. He was still an indespensible drummer and one of the finest studio musicians of his time, and I always believed that we as a society often have quite a troubling way of understanding mental illness and how we then perceive that person's contributions to the arts, or even just their humanity. As I saw someone mention, I think as a whole we're not as progressive as we should be in considering addiction and struggles with mental illness. Not sure if they've been mentioned in the thread as people have been listing them out, but Mingus, Bird, Nina Simone, and -- yes, to give a more modern example that nobody nowadays wants to touch with a 40 foot pole -- Kanye West, all are some more names that have suffered from intense mental illness.
Agreed. There is/was a move to blame folks rather than try and understand help these folks. Some of the early anti-psychotics were quite nasty. Some people could function while some cannot and some it changed them fairly radically over time. On the one hand, I can understand folks like the Floyd not wanting to go pick up Syd, on the other hand, I think it was rather cruel. To their credit, Gilmour, Waters and Wright tried to make it up to him by helping him with his solo career.
I believe this is the study where they identify a link in the value of the cycling of bipolar and some schizophrenic states that allow for rumination and later action in artistic creativity. Creativity and Psychopathology: An Interdisciplinary View Creativity and Psychopathology: An Interdisciplinary View - PubMed
Indeed, even my son who is autistic (not quite the same category), can with proper medication, behavior modification, etc. become functional but even these medications can have long term side effects one has to work for. He has a job now, managed to get his GED and did some college before he decided it wasn’t for him (he also has ADHD and has obsessive/compulsive disorder). It’s difficult to find people who truly know what they are doing (whether that be a mental health specialist, neurologist, etc.). Heck, I had a beother who suffered from bipolar depression and tried to kill himself and luckily he did find some balance with working with the right person. I also have issues like someone I talked to the other day who assumed that diabetes is strictly about diet (diet can play a part for sure in some aspects of the disease). I think similar ignorance surrounds those folks that fall into the pit of mental illness.
…and this is why finding the right person that will do what’s in the patient’s best interest and not the doctors is essential.
People in the entertainment industry or related areas like art (painting), musicians, actors/actresses, comedians etc. These people, not all are mostly sensitive people that put on a brave face when they are doing their art or entertainment and performing. When you are doing this kind of work you a providing a service from within, a service which contains your heart, mind and soul and even your looks in some cases and you hope people will like it and accept it. No one really sees the downtime of these artists and what they do when they are not touring or performing. These people are no different than anyone else except they have a special talent(s) and may have more money at their disposal then the average person working stiff. The arts, music and entertainment has always been surrounded by debauchery such as excessive alcohol or drug use. Not to mention reckless sexual activity. I personally think that many people in the entertainment industry are actually somewhat broken people and are insecure in some ways, with a low under the radar self esteem but they can hide behind this with their talents to avoid the public from knowing, seeing or even realizing this. Look at all the suicides that have plagued the entertainment industry plus all the self medicating or reckless sexual behavior that happens. When artists, especially musicians are done with the show. That initial excitement they had on stage ends shorty after so many of them need to find other things to do in between shows during their downtime to keep that euphoric high going and if this means alcohol, drugs and sex, then that's what happens. We seem to put these people into a class of eliteness but when stripped away of their talents and fortunes they are just like everyone else when it comes down to it. Some people just can't handle fame and fortune and they start to self destruct or kill themselves eventually. With the talent, a good backbone is needed to survive this industry or you will be eaten up by the critics, fans etc.
Interesting responses. Mental illness however defined is common. We all are shades of it. Lots in creative endeavors. Where looking at the world differently is beneficial. But the townspeople and gray flannel suits. The humorless. The bureaucrats of soul will burn the witch. It’s tradition. See it all the time.
Paraphrasing Alan Watts here, but in a different time, the mentally ill would be seen as the shamans, the bridge between the tangible and the divine. The way our society is structured forces labels and social sanctions onto the mentally ill.
with Brian Wilson Landry complicated a fairly routine mental illness, he was then reevaluated and it got even more complicated, then everyone who ever met him also diagnosed him. With mental illness there’s no one size fits all so most Doctors place you on a spectrum and treat symptoms. There is no such term as mild bipolar disorder he would be diagnosed as being on the bipolar spectrum.
It's no more simplistic or revisionist than "SYD BARRETT LOST HIS MIND" which is what has been trotted out for 45 years to sell books, magazines and Pink Floyd albums. There is plenty out there that pushes the preferred narrative about him because it's apparently more interesting than "SYD BARRETT - TOOK DRUGS, GOT OVER IT, FANCIED A QUIET LIFE". And no, I 'm not threadcrapping or trolling.
I never mentioned Skip - there seems to be little doubt about his particular circumstances. Barrett though... it's based on what people who knew him for a brief period of time when he was in his very early 20s saw for that very brief period of time when he was caning it and conflicted about his own future. People who had no access to him for the last 30 years of his life yet regurgitated the same stories ad nauseum. I wouldn't want to be forever viewed as being the same as I was at that age. That would be fairly insulting, no?
People with mental disorders often have problems to find and keep regular jobs. I think arts in general and music in particular offers a far more flexible environment -- provided that you have the talent, obviously. I would say that this is one of the main reasons that explains why are there so many musicians with mental illnesses.
One could argue most musicians/artists don’t make a living from their art/craft. The food industry is full of those artistically inclined coming and going, cobbling together various jobs and schemes to make money and do their thing.
