My experience with a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BKphoto, Aug 30, 2015.

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  1. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    10:00 with those speakers isn't loud at all...my listening room is in the middle of the house, at 9:00 you can have a conversation and its kind of in the background...those speakers are big but not very efficient ...takes a lot to move them at all...
     
  2. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    I wonder how many that are critical of the Project Carbon Debut actually have spent time with one? Obviously the OP has one and can be critical....
     
  3. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I think this is a good point Slick. The arm is leaps and bounds ahead of the plinth, platter and motor on the Debut. It is going to pick up more of the mechanical noises and resonance issues if you are plugged-in to an upgraded phono stage, amplification, speakers and push the volume. This is also why I never recommend going beyond the 2m Blue if upgrading the cart.

    Now would it be better with a lesser arm? I don't think so. The sound would just break apart in a different way for a different reason. It might very well be more balanced as a table but I am not a fan of reducing quality to make an improvement. Really the answer is to just turn down the volume. In just about every set up scenario I have ever seen, there is a point where more volume is degradation of sound quality. One good reason to make upgrades, that point is pushed further out.

    I loved using my Pro-ject this past weekend, much more than when it was my main ride. A couple reasons for that: I was using Paradigm studio 40's instead of 100's. I was pushing it with 80wpc from a Denon rather than 200 from a B&K separate and I wasn't pushing the volume as hard as I do at home.

    So I guess I just contradicted my never make a downgrade to make an improvement statement.
     
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  4. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    They are out there, they are generally the sl-120o crowd for the most part. People love their turntables and when one is radically different from the one they love, they like to tear it apart.
     
  5. Dennis0675

    Dennis0675 Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Ohio
    If your B&K isn't pushing those speakers you need new ones. That amp is a powerhouse. Mine is a little bigger at 200w but I can peel the paint off the walls.
     
  6. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    True, but most people do live within a two hour drive of one. Where there's a will there's a way. (Btw, I also bought mine online, but I also knew what I might be getting into.)
     
  7. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    When you say "11:00", where would mute be? 7:00?

    I had a similar problem with mine when I first bought it, but at the time I had a much thinner, higher stand. On my receiver's scale of 0-70 (25 being normal listening volume for me). I couldn't get to 30 without feedback issues. But getting a lower, more solid stand I can really push it beyond 50 before developing any issues, and my TT is only about 3 feet from my right speaker. So maybe the Pro-Ject guy, as idiotic as he sounds, may not be that far off and it boils down to your room's acoustics.
     
  8. Burning Tires

    Burning Tires Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Sorry about the OP's experience. I started with a Debut Carbon, noticed the dreaded motor hum, researched a couple "fixes", and then sent it back for a full refund and upgraded to a much better table. I can't justify dropping extra cash on upgrades for something that doesn't work right in the first place. Maybe if I had gotten a perfect one I'd still have it, but in my opinion it was defective and not worth keeping. Although, it was good enough to hook me on vinyl and want a better TT.

    The hum I had was only audible through the system when the motor was on and the stylus was touching the record. But even with the belt removed and the record sitting still, if the motor was on, I got the humming noise.
     
  9. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    yeah...7:00 is 0

    the butcher block has helped...my right speaker is about 3.5 to 4 ft away from TT
     
  10. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.


    While I have not done so yet, it is a necessary risk for many of us without stores anywhere close by.
     
  11. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    And I see your point, yet believe balance is an important factor. If I want to build a hot rod, sure I can just add a big motor, but without upgrading other items on the car (brakes, suspension, rear end, etc.), will it be as useful/enjoyable as one that is of a balanced design? And the aluminum Project is a nice arm and can handle the same carts without showing it's other short comings as much. Again, just my take on it.
     
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  12. OcdMan

    OcdMan Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    In this case, I don't think this has been a direct-drive vs. belt-drive thread or anything like that at all. Most of those critical of the Debut Carbon in this thread have owned or used one. The OP has one. Then there's the 2nd poster, who bought one for his son and wasn't impressed. There's a former DC owner who favors the U-Turn Orbit by a "wide margin." Another former DC owner who sold his for a loss and is now "very happy" with his Rega P3. A fifth DC owner, who cousin's vintage Yamaha was "far better", and he now owns a VPI. Also someone who thought the DC would replace his Dual and Technics but he didn't like it and went with a Denon DP-300F instead. And, at least up to this point, one more owner who couldn't get rid of the motor hum, sent it back for a refund, and now lists a Music Hall in his profile. I own a KAB'd SL-1210MK5 (among others, including an idler-driven one that I want to restore) but I would take a Rega RP3 over a completely stock SL-1200 so I wouldn't consider myself one of the "SL-1200 crowd." I was considering buying a Debut Carbon for a family member but after hearing it and reading about the problems some people have had with it, I passed on that idea. Of course, there have been plenty who posted that they really enjoy their Pro-Ject DC, so it's clearly possible to get one that works right and sounds good. Potential buyers just need to be aware of what problems they might encounter with one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
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  13. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    As I said before, people that have bad experiences will always be driven to speak a lot louder than those that have no complaints. A vocal minority will always give the exaggerated impression that a product is a lot worse than it actually is.
     
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  14. George Blair

    George Blair Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Not sure why the humming issue is always tied to the motor - couldn't this also be a simple grounding issue?
     
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  15. russk

    russk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Syracuse NY
    My experience with two different Project decks was the same. Horrible. For entry level tables I would stick with used/vintage or even the new Pioneer. Sadly if you want a new table the Pioneer Is the only one I'd buy till around 1 grand. That entry level Rega deck is awful too by the way.

    I find it surprising none of the existing companies will spend the time to produce a good belt drive for 5 or even 600 dollars. Seems like a huge void in the market place there
     
  16. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    It's the motor. You can verify by using a stethoscope to hear the motor hum vibrating the tonearm and the tonearm mount. The tonearm is picking up that vibration and transmitting that vibration to the cartridge and stylus.

    I have a Debut III. Trying to isolate or fix the motor vibration and the resulting hum was futile. The turntable is packed away now. Waiting for me to give it away to someone I don't like.
     
  17. BKphoto

    BKphoto JazzAllDay Thread Starter

    not really sure what that adds...so if you have a problem you should just shut up about it...?
     
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  18. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    Location:
    sweet VA.
    I think he means that an unsatisfied customer is usually more vocal about the product than an unsatisfied one. just human nature. I did not take away from it that anyone should shut up about it. Just his hypothesis on why you hear mainly negative remarks.
     
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  19. APH

    APH Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cambridge, England
    I didn't like my Debut Carbon. Horrible Inner groove distortion. Weak construction. Hum. Skipped when anyone walked past.

    I now have a technics 1210. Infinitely solid. No hum. No significant inner groove distortion.

    That said, the DC could sound really good, definitely more detailed than the Technics. The price of that is it picks up every bit of surface noise. But the Technics is good, and much less hassle.

    The Technics is a businessman's car. Solid, functional, not that stylish.
    The DC is a kit sports car. A way of getting top speed cheaply, but it might well fall to bits under you.
     
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  20. Russell Weston

    Russell Weston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    Yeah, the IGD is due to the Red. It's virtually non-existent with the 2m blue
     
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  21. Russell Weston

    Russell Weston Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    I've found that new 180 gm vinyl is generally noisier, period, with some notable exceptions. For example the new Rush DMM vinyl pressings which sound fantastically detailed and quiet.
     
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  22. slovell

    slovell Retired Mudshark

    Location:
    Chesnee, SC, USA
    Used VPI Scout and never look back.
     
  23. Isaac K.

    Isaac K. Forum Resident

    Considering that the VPI Scout has a list price of something like 5 times that of the Pro-Ject DC... I should hope so!
     
  24. pbiancardi

    pbiancardi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dyer, IN
    I think a corvette might be faster than an accord....price does matter.
     
  25. Dr Faustus

    Dr Faustus A younger man now getting old

    Well, I've had my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC for a month now. Granted, my system is very low end but the sound quality is excellent for me - no hum even when playing loud. no tracking problems. Set up was easy, took about 25 minutes. The only issue I have with it is the dust cover is a bit small, so sometimes the disk rubs against it. Not a big problem as I normally remove the dust cover to play albums anyway, but worth being aware of. I'll be upgrading to the acrylic platter at some point and then will upgrade the stylus to the 2m Blue but I couldn't be happier with it. My old turntable (an ancient Dual) served it's purpose well but there is no comparison to the Pro-Ject.
     
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