My strange journey through speakers

Hello everyone!

Over the past two years I have been through 4 sets of speakers and I’m already considering a 5th before the end of the year.

After a few years with no system due to lack of space (just used a set of Sennheiser HD600 cans), I returned to HiFi on the beginning of last year.

Bought an Audiolab 6000A integrated amplifier, a very stable set of speaker stands and started with a 2nd hand pair of Quad Z1s. Very detailed, but oh so very bass light and unnatural mids, so they went. The price was so good that I ended up making a profit of the them.

Thought I should take a shot at a very good deal of Quad Z2s at a distant AD. Good bass, good treble but mids non existent. So they went, for the same price as well, so… no loss.

Saw a pair of mint rosewood Monitor Audio PL100IIs on eBay, so I decided to take a shot. Magnificently built (even if not downright pretty) and with a very easy to like sound. But the bass port was too audible, the bass a bit slow and the treble lacked a bit of energy. They made everything easy to listen but maybe too mellow. Sold them for a bit of profit as well.

So I went to two dealers near me: first ATC and the Rega.

Listened to the SCM11s and Rega RX-1 and RX-3. Loved the ATCs to bits, so I ended up buying them (although I also liked both Regas - yet, for some reason, in the room I listened to them, the bass extension seemed to be the same in both the RX-1 and the RX-3 - odd).

A few months ago, a very good friend of mine and I went back to the Rega AD and we both bought Planar 1s. She enjoyed the RX1 (used with the Planar 1 on the demo) so much that she bought the ones on display and she’s selling her MA Silver 2.

Having spent quite a lot of time at her place, I’m liking her RX-1s better than my ATCs. The timber seems more realistic, with voices even more organic and fleshed out. Strings also sound eerily real.

In case anyone is asking, she’s using a similar amplifier (Quad Vena II) to mine.

So I’m now considering selling my SCM11s and buying the RX-1s, a pair of speakers that’s less than half the msrp of the ATCs and 1/5 of the price of the Platinum 100IIs.

Has anyone of you made an upgrade that should’ve been/felt like a downgrade?

I also felt a bit like doing so from the PL100IIs to the SCM11s but it wasn’t. They sound much better, to my 33 year old ears, ofc.

 

Rega speakers are underrated, in my view.

You need a beast of an amp to get the most out of ATC's. Just a thought (I'm unfamiliar with the Audiolab.)

 

That’s the usual train of thought with these speakers but the reality is that they don’t need a lot of current because they never drop below 5 or 6 Ohms. Now, if we want to hear them at the high volumes they’re capable of, then a lot of power is needed because they’re not very sensitive.
Unfortunately for me, I live in an apartment and I never go above 70/75dB, so the lack of power isn’t an issue for me.

I’m listening to my ATCs at the moment and I cannot put a finger on them: they seem to do everything right and they are very balanced, with a very detailed bass.

I think I even prefer the bass and the treble on my ATCs. It’s the mids/voices that really come alive with the Regas.

 

My experience too.

I had a pair of RS1's some years back -- seriously fun speakers.

 

Trying to drive the MA Platinums with a mid-price amp and not getting a good result might be down to several factors, including the amp.

What you get out of the speakers will also be dependent upon how well they are set up, including how well they are mounted on their stands and how well they're positioned. Some speakers are also more sensitive to placement than others.

 

Thanks for sharing, very interesting!

I've heard Rega bookshelf speakers are generally unfussy when it comes to placement and can go near walls without getting boomy. Is that true?

Also, from what you've heard of them, aside from timbres and vocals, how's the overall tonal balance on the RX1's, is there enough bass? How are they with different genres of music (I'm looking for something neutral and versatile)?

 

I’ve owned passive ATC’s and I’d respectfully - and strongly - disagree. Having a lot of power behind them does tend to flesh out their sound. But it sounds like you’ve convinced yourself that they don’t so I doubt my experience will convince you otherwise.

I think the real issue here is that using inefficient speakers (Stereophile estimated the SCM11's real world sensitivity at around 82dB which needless to say is very inefficient) in the situation you’ve described - habitual low(er) level listening - just isn’t going to yield optimal results.

Unless you happen to enjoy changing speakers often and going through a constant dissatisfaction cycle may I suggest trying the Rega's in your system, in your room - since your friend has some perhaps she would be kind enough to bring them over? Or if it is possible, arrange a loan from a retailer?

Speakers out of all the components in the audio chain are the most room sensitive. Just because you like how they sound at her place doesn’t mean that you will at yours… and ditto for assumptions about the “similarity” of the amplifier she uses.

 

You set yourself a pretty high bar of tonal balance by living in the Senns. I have the HD6XX, and am lucky to have an old pair of Avid speakers that fills the room in a very similar-sounding way.

 

I spent a long time trying to get my
System to perform as i knew it should.
I failed and tried several speakers
I have 3 or 4 pairs, enough to start a
Shop.
I sm back to.my original pair.
I saw Cardas speaker placement calculator, and set my speakers up
As they reccommended.
I am now satisfied.
Hopefully you have not fallen into my trap, but food for thought?

 

Listen to your speakers in her room or have her bring the Regas over. The same speakers can sound very different in various rooms.

 

Rega speakers are exceptionally good with strings. I owned R5’s and RS1’s.

 

The PL100IIs are rated to between 60 and 120W (at a 4Ohms rating, according to the manual - my amp was tested to 85w @ 4 Ohms) and they never drop below 4.5Ohms. The reviews also stated they’re not hard to drive, which makes sense from the specs and my experience corroborates that. Is they’re any particular electromechanical requirement that I’m missing?

Of course I’d never try to run speakers that drop to 2 or 1 Ohms with my amplifier as it was not built for such low loads.

 

I understand and I also respect and appreciate your insight. What I can say is that I tried the SCM11s at the AD with both my Audiolab 6000A and their own 150w, highly regarded integrated amp. And I know I’d have failed a blind test between the two at my regular volume level. Of course there was some strain/edginess when I pushed my Audiolab to its limits, but I never get to that point in my room.

I’m listening to Led Zeppelin as I type this and the volume is at -25, when it goes up to +8 (and this is a digital controller, not an analogue pot, so it keeps on increasing all the way).

So my experience is different and that’s why I’m keeping my Audiolab until I listen to one amplifier that makes an clear, audible improvement at the volumes I listen to.

And yes, I’m going to do just that: I’ll bring her speakers to my room to try them here.

It’s hasn’t been that bad for me to be changing speakers. I’m actually making a profit even without actively trying. And I live alone, so I don’t have to ask permission to anyone regarding money/boxes/waf

 

Rega speakers are unfussy regarding positioning for 2 main reasons, I’d say. First, the monitor speakers are quite small, with small drivers and you can see the wool inside the speaker right against the port, providing some dampening. Since they’re not bassy at all to start with, even with the help of the walls, the bass never gets boomy or too boosted.

Second, on their floorstanding models, the port is located at the front with the possibility of putting the bass drivers firing inwards, which makes them much less subjected to the influence of close walls.

Regarding their tone, they have just about enough bass for me, but I’m hardly a bass head. I tried playing around with a sealed subwoofer last year but I was never happy with it, after have experimented with phase, crossover frequency and positioning.

They are definitely brighter than the ATCs but not overly so. I’d say they quite natural sounding, even if a bit bass light (which is easy to understand with just a 5” driver).

 

Just for fun maybe bring your Audiolab amp to your friends place, easier than schlepping speakers, and see how her Regas sound on her amp vs yours? You may, or may not, find out you have an amp rather than a speaker issue.

 

Indeed - I am not a fan of making comments that needlessly frustrate the person asking the original question.

So often we come to forums and see people making all sorts of suggestions that don’t address the thread starters objectives.
That’s a long way of saying - it is not my suggestion that you ought to change an amplifier you clearly enjoy because of my experiences.
And I acknowledge the specifics of your situation - you listen at lower volumes.

I have loved the sound of ATC speakers - obviously you do too - but they may not be the best option in your current situation for the reasons I have already stated? Or perhaps they might be? The point is - it has to sound good to you yes?

Therefore my advice remains as before. To avoid yet another cycle of (perhaps needless?) speaker changing - try the Rega’s in your room, in your system before making further changes. I am glad to hear you have made plans to do so.

There is no such thing as “perfect”. Only the compromise that suits best?
Those ATC’s are superb speakers, it would be a pity to make a hasty change only to realise later that they were already the compromise that suits best?

Good luck

 

Yes, I’ll do that

I did that last year, with the Monitor Audios she had at the time. Neither I nor she could notice any difference. And it makes sense: the DACs are the same, as are most of the components inside and they’re built in the same facilities.

 

Wise words, in my opinion! Until now, these ATCs have been, by far, the best speakers (best compromise, for me) I had in this room.

They are the first speakers I had that seem to truly reproduce the sound without adding their own “flavor” to it. I truly enjoy the music they produce. The previous pairs I quickly decided to sell. These ones… I will think this through.

Thank you!

 

You are most welcome. I have come to this view after making many, many needless and costly purchases myself until I eventually lost my enjoyment of the entire experience and walked away from audio altogether. I've only recently started to get back into it and purchased some very modest gear which I'm enjoying for now.

Couldn't agree more! This is their great strength.

It would be nice to find out what you eventually decide, all the best.

 

Quit buying speakers and buy a couple of subwoofers instead dude. It will make your existing speakers sound better.

 

I can hear my neighbor cough in his apartment across the living room wall, so deep bass and high volumes are out of the question.

Also, I don’t need any more bass than that my speakers give me.

P.S. Just picked the RX-1 from her apartment and I’m currently listening to them in my room. I’ll let you all know about my findings soon.

 

Very good! I look forward to hearing what you find.

 

Excellent. I think this is the right call.

 

Well… first impressions!

The Regas are more similar to the ATCs than my previous speakers. But there are differences, of course.

The sound is thinner, as if it’s tilted a bit towards the treble. Voices tend to be clearer for that but it can be too much of a good thing on some recordings (such as some songs by Chris Rea), losing warmth or body. Bass doesn’t go as low and isn’t as impactful (this is the biggest difference for sure).

So no, I’m not as impressed as I thought I would be. Still, it’s midnight here in Portugal. I’ll go to bed and listen some more throughout the day, tomorrow.

Thank you all for your attention and input!

 

What you’re describing sounds consistent to me… beginning from the leaner, less impactful bass response it makes sense then that the midrange (vocals) would sound thinner and lacking some body and then ultimately that the whole balance may sound tilted up toward the top end.

And that thinner midrange would lead to an impression of increased “clarity” but over time this could sound less natural, perhaps even a little analytical.

Interesting comments, whether you end up liking the sound or not… because of the consistency of your comments I’m inclined to think you are assessing things accurately.

It will be interesting to hear what you think after some more listening tomorrow.