Nagaoka MP-200 vs Ortofon 2m Black - fair comparison?

Naga probably should've said something like 'sonically detectable wear begins around 200 hours'. And then included some sort of graph showing that it's extremely mild at first, and then increases over time to say 1000-2000 hours, which is when you should probably replace the cart.

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This all day. His channel is interesting to watch and I appreciate his effort and enthusiasm, but his reviews aren't useful to me personally for what I need.

 

True. I do like the comparisons, and much of what he claims is borne out in listening to the clips, however as @zombiemodernist points out he doesn't compare tracking ability at the inner grooves. His comment about the stylus shape not being the be-all-end-all -- while true to some extent -- is a little misleading. An advanced stylus shape like microline, micro ridge, fritz geiger, etc. is always going to do better on inner groove tracking. That's glossed over a bit in his comparisons, but it's very important to me when buying a cartridge. To be fair, neither the Nagaoka nor 2M Bronze have an "advanced" stylus shape.

I do agree with him to some extent about the 2M Bronze. I owned a 2M Bronze and did not like it at all, but not because I found it "veiled." It was mainly due to the fact it couldn't accurately trace the inner grooves on some records and sounded a bit harsh. I now have a KAB-modified Concorde Pro-S 40 (same as an OM 40) and find it far superior (really to any of the 2M series). My Benz Micro Wood SL is even better, but that's a considerably more expensive cartridge (and moving coil).

 

What turntable/tonearm are you using?

 

Yes Worn and Worn Out would be very different terminology.
And indeed it would be less biased if he just showed you the carts and didnt say anything. I will be honest, a lot of the time I cant really hear what he is describing, maybe because hes recording his stereo with a mic instead of taking direct audio input, or because I dont listen close enough, or maybe hes just tricking us with it. Thats when Ill simply withhold judgement until I can decide.

If youre looking for such a channel, try Audiorpehus:
Audiorpheus

 

I currently have Pro-Ject 1Xpression Carbon Classic with 2M Blue, but I'm replacing it with a Technics 1210GR on order. The Pro-Ject will go to another room. I got tired of lifting the platter for 45s - it would get stuck stretching the belt, so I'd have to constantly work it and use my thumb to hold the center spindle down. I'm going to dedicate it to 33s in another room. I only have a Yamaha R-N602 receiver and some old school Marantz speakers. I played the video through them, albeit over AirPlay, and I couldn't hear the difference this time. I did hear the difference with my AKG headphones on the laptop. That said, I'll have to decide on the Bronze or 200 based on aesthetics and possibly my eventual upgrade path. Still holding out for a McIntosh MAC7200. Hoping they add wireless streaming to the digital module in the future.

 

Thanks, him and Vinyl Room (which has ended) are the only 2 I follow.

 

If you’re getting a Technics, you should definitely check out the KAB/Ortofon Pro S line - the 30 is comparable to the Bronze and the 40 the Black. Cheaper and better than the 2M series, IMO.

These are the older Concorde Pro S cartridges discontinued in 2016, which are the same electrically as the OM series. The stylii are interchangeable. He also has the OM cartridges if you prefer to use the headshell, but the Concorde doesn’t require alignment.

 

I had the 2m bronze but swapped it for the mp150, it was so good I I now have the mp200 and it is so musical I found the bronze quite cold sounding too my ears

 

Awesome. I can't wait. The MP-200 arrived but the 1210GR arrival date keeps getting pushed out. It's now April for my order at Musician's Friend. I called them up and they said I was in the next round and that new orders are getting pushed out to June or July. Technics can't keep up with the orders.

 

Of course sound is subjective, and every piece of equipment in a system plays a part. It is tempting to try to compare/contrast cartridges, partly because many of us want to learn which would be the best place to put our money. Others are likely to want someone to agree with their choice after the fact. We all want to think we have made a good choice. The truth is, there are so many good choices out there, it's very tough to know which is best for anyone. So I'll add my thoughts here: I believe even the Nagaoka mp 110 is competitive with the 2m bronze and black. I know the Ortofon guys won't like hearing that, but it's my personal reality. I bought and used then sold both Ortofons but kept the 110. The mp 200, I believe, is superior to both of the Ortofons and is not nearly as picky with regard to setup. I don't own an mp 500, but it must be quite a thing of beauty if it is noticeably higher performing than the 200. I've become a big fan of Nagaoka. They ain't purdy, but they play purdy.

 

I agree totally with you watchguy

 

May be his ears doing comparison but in his cartidge shoot out series he uses the same parts of the same songs for each cartridge and you can hear the differences he’s talking about. He uses examples too. Obviously not the same as being there in person, but the dude presents his comparisons with sonic evidence. Not exactly fair to say he is just telling us what he hears when we can hear it too through his recordings.

 

Y'all...you cannot evaluate audio equipment with YouTube videos. Give me a big freakin' break please.

 

I wouldn't put it quite the same way but he's right of course!

 

True but if done well it gives more information than just hearing people’s subjective opinions, which is 100% of what we get on Hoffman Forum and also in most YouTube reviews, which tend to consist of people talking about what they remember hearing.

Most people don’t put in the work to do recorded comparisons. Even auditioning in person is difficult because you have to be able to A/B things one after the other, which is not easy. Not to mention listening in a store is totally different than at home. Honestly, it’s really hard to get objective, comparative information on various pieces of audio equipment barring borrowing various set ups and using them for many weeks.

I agree that YouTube audio can’t capture everything sonically, but that’s not to say it captures nothing. It does reveal differences, and combined with the verbal reviews, it can lend credence to a review. Especially in a “shoot out” style review as is done by the Singaporean dude. He has obviously put a lot of work into his cartridge shoot outs and his phone stage shoot outs. He seems legitimately to have a good ear too, and can describe audio competently. Ultimately it’s his opinions, can’t disagree with that. But everything everyone says about audio is their opinion. At least he gives something more than just his opinion. Recorded comparisons.

 

His clips are too short to provide any meaningful comparison. They are also of very tame tracks. Not really useful for people that are critical or listen to a lot of non-tame records. He also fails to provide basic measurements where they can be done cheaply and easily, such as the cartridge reviews. Overall just another "tone" reviewer.

 

+1. I like Ian and what he does, YT limitations and all.

I agree that it's a lot better than having a reviewer just do the 'talking head' thing alone. And judging by his channel's popularity, a lot of ppl seem to agree.

Also like that he either buys all equipment that he reviews, or borrows from audiophile friends, i.e. no obvious conflicts of interest by way of relying on manufacturers for access to product.

Which is probably why Ian's reviews are refreshingly blunt.
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