Nagaoka MP-500 vs Hana SL vs Nagaoka MP-300 — Anyone heard at least two of these?

Gonna do the bump here…


.

 

I think the Hana sounds "quieter in the groove" and I think this is mainly due to frequency response. The Nagaoka seems to have more energy between 5 and 10 kHz, at least in my system.

 

I use an SAEC SS-300 mat which is 5.5mm thick and my head shell is the Jelco HS-25 style one that came with the cart (MP500H) so bear that in mind. I set the VTF toward the higher end of the range - 1.75g ish and I use a small bubble level to get the head shell level, which for me ends up being set just higher than the "1" position on the arm base. I use test records and my Parks Audio Puffin to work on azimuth and skating but to be honest I never know how correct I am with them. The Ortofon test record tends to need skating to be quite high, around the same as the VTF.

 

I think that's a fair comment. In the grand scheme of things, compared to other carts I have had, I feel that they are both warm, detailed and clear, but I feel they emphasise different things.

With the Hana, the sound of an acoustic string being plucked with a pick tends to be fuller/thicker, emphasising the "body" of the string (mid-bass? mid-range?); with the Nagaoka, I feel that the click of the pick striking the string tends to be emphasised in a more tactile way (lower treble?)

 

Also, just to say, I haven't heard the Hana ML. I live in Tokyo and despite the Excel Sound factory being a short train ride away, Hana carts are export only. I bought my SL through Simon at Design Build Listen in New Zealand (maker of The Wand tonearm, which I now use as a second arm on my 1200G).

 

Thanks, this is very helpful.
I am happy with my settings too, stock mat, LP Gear Zupreme 10G head shell, which I believe it is a rebranded Jelco either HS-20 or a HS-25 I am not sure which one at the moment, VTA at 0 and VTF at 1.6.
I am thinking getting the Puffin eventually just to experiment with my azimuth and antiskating.
For now, for the azimuth I am borrowing a friend’s Fozgometer while I set antiskating by ear using a blank groove from an old Shure testing record.

 

Thansk a bunch gumsrave! You convinced me to pull the trigger on a Hana cart. I got a good deal on a used ML (same price as an SL) so I couldn’t pass on it after what I read from you. Hopefully the micro line shows off the same characteristics. Thanks!

 

Congrats! Let us know how you get on

 

Cool, that’s one guy down. Wonder how DaFox is doin’?
.

 

I'm probably going to get a AT VM750SH next, but keep looking at the Ortofon 2M bronze, black, and OM series of cartridges
I have a low capacitance OCC cable from Audio Envy on its way, want to try that with the Nagaoka MP200 to see if it helps. The Nagaoka in my system is soft sounding, works well with some recordings but not others.

 

Good luck. Can’t say I’m personally an AT cart fan (too many of ‘em come across as bright and/or thin to my ears), but YMMV, and I don’t know your particular system and room synergies nearly as well as you do, obviously.

If you do look at Naga again down the road, MP-500 was the one that seemed best-suited to your particular needs. Best of luck, and let us know how it works out.
.

 

Could be, they just revisited the MP-500 with a new review in the Feb 2023 Hi-Fi News and did find the response peaked some in that region, and then rolled off quite a bit between 10-20K. Also found the compliance is pretty high, as we've often mentioned around here ...
------------------------------------------------

Nagaoka MP-500 Cartridge Lab Report
I would still not recommend loading the MP-500 with a parallel capacitance of >100pF, however, as the cartridge's native response already shows a gently declining treble that falls 9dB from 10kHz to 20kHz following a 1-2dB boost through the presence region [see Graph 1, below]. Also, its compliance is rather higher than the rated 8.5x10-6cm/dyn at ~30cu suggesting the MP-500 is best suited to life in low-to-medium effective mass tonearms. VTA, too, is higher than anticipated at 30° so the latter, and the top-end response dip, might well be ameliorated by raising the tonearm slightly at the rear.

Otherwise there's much to commend this proven Moving-Permalloy mechanism. Tracking is excellent, even at a low 1.7g test downforce (a wide 1.3-1.8g range is specified) as the MP-500 sails through the top 80µm groove pitch and navigates the max. +18dB groove (re. 315Hz/5cm/sec) at <0.8% THD. The excellent symmetry of the MP generator is also a worthy 'feature', illustrated not only in the matching lateral/vertical response trends [Graph 1] but also in the uncommonly low lateral/vertical and stereo distortion vs. frequency [see Graph 2]. Very few pick-ups, of any type, achieve a sub-3% stereo THD from 20Hz-20kHz (–8dB re. 5cm/sec) and a peak of <7% , in this instance at 14kHz, with discrete lateral/vertical cuts. PM







Freq. resp. curves (–8dB re. 5cm/sec) lateral (L+R, black) vs. vertical (L–R, red) vs. stereo (dashed)

 

this seems like a pretty dramatic roll off. @JP, you ever test a mp-500?

 

Nope. Wished I’d picked one up when they were around $300 for curiosities sake. That does seem oddly poor.

 

Here's a plot from someone I know on another forum. Not remotely good but not as bad as the MAR plot. IIRC MAR plots tend to show roll-off right near 20kHz as a rule? Probably from doing a single FFT.

That drop from 300 is odd too. I can't remember seeing a not broken cartridge not be pretty much flat down to ~30Hz. I'll ask if he'll re-do the plot now that I've added the ability for the script to plot from 20Hz.

 

Here's the plot from the Lyra Kleos lab report they just did in March ... Turntables, Arms & Cartridges




And here's a recent one for the Ortofon Diamond, but yes, looks like they start rolloff close to 20k ...




And one of those yummy Ortofon Verismo carts ...

 

Looks like a window issue coupled with smoothing.

 

I much prefer the Amethyst to the Hana, FWIW. The Hana is too v curvy for me. The mids are just missing. The Amethyst has a lot more body and warmth.

 

While I’ve never have had the Hana SL, then I have had the Hana ML and the Soundsmith Carmen mkII (old body, 6,8g).
In my opinion the SS Carmen is miles better. While the ML has “luster and glow”, then it lacks rhythm and compared to the Carmen, transparency.

With Carmen the music just flows, kick drums are punchy and on beat. There’s more “air” and it’s feels relaxed in it’s performance, compared the ML, which tries to “force” music from the groove.
And on poorly recorded material the difference is just enormous. You will still enjoy the music, while the ML kills poor recordings.

with Wasserman Duets, ballad of the runaway horse, with Warnes, it’s just a delight with Carmen. ML does a really good job as well on that record, but it feels like you’re listening to a piece of equipment - while the Carmen is all about the music.

Picked up my Carmen for $50 with a broken cantilever. Got it retipped for $200. The ML was long gone by then, so it wasn’t on the same arm (ML I had on SME IV, and the Carmen runs on RB330). It beat a DV 10x5 mkII in every aspect - by a LOT on the RB330 !

Just my 2 cents of course, but I expected nothing with the Carmen, was just retipping it to resell really. But I tried it out, just for fun and I’m really glad I gave it a chance.
Tried a lot of cartridges in my time, and had a lot of disappointments. Carmen just charmed me from the first time it hit a record. And continues to do so, every day.
I’d take it any day over a Hana, DV, Benz, DL103, 2M, for general use.
I listen to everything from opera to death metal and in between, and the Carmen reproduces everything beautifully.

No offence to Hana, which is a great cartridge too, it just feels “closed” compared to the Soundsmith (in my experience).
Cheers

 

I have the Hana SL, the Hana ML and a Nagaoka MP-300. I think the sound of the MP-300 compares very favorably to the Hana SL but I prefer the ML to the MP-300 on my Luxman PD-151 turntable.

The Mp-300 on my VPI Traveler compares well enough to the Hana SL that I might not have purchased a SUT to play it had I heard the MP-300 first. I still use the SL regularly with the Traveler because I don’t enjoy swapping cartridges often and the Hana has many fewer hours on it than the MP-300. I will likely change to the MP-300 when the Hana stylus wears out.

Either the MP-300 or the Hana SL can be very satisfying. I have found them to have more in common than different in how they sound. If I had to point out a difference, I’d say that the SL’s high frequencies sound a bit more extended than those of the MP-300.