Nat King Cole: "Hittin' the Ramp" - early-period set from Resonance, rel. Nov. 1, 2019*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Tribute

    Tribute Senior Member

    With Natalie and Maria gone, who are Nat's survvivors? Grandkids? Great Grandchildren? Great Great Grandchildren?
     
  2. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    His twin daughters, Timolin and Casey.
     
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  3. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    @jtaylor @MLutthans

    I've had the physical set since Christmas day, this truly outstanding collection is in almost in permanent rotation at chateu hodgo right now, it is in fact my favourite archive release of the 2019.

    Regarding the sequencing of the set, I notice that it is largely in chrononlogical session order, yet there are the odd exceptions to this rule, particularliy as we reach disc six. This begs the question what dictated the sequencing and why are there exceptions to the chronoligical nature of the set, secondly how was it decided what should or shouldn't go onto disc seven? These are not complaints I'm just curious really.

    Lastly, many thanks to you two and to everyone involved in the creation of this outstanding collection.
     
  4. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Valid questions, @hodgo. Matt can chime in as well if my explanation is found to be lacking.

    The decision was made to sequence the discs in such a way that prevented repetition, at least until the final disc, which we conceived as a "bonus" disc even if that isn't an entirely accurate description of Disc 7. For instance, we didn't want to start the entire set off with two takes -- alternate and master -- of 1936's "Honey Hush." Thus, we moved the alternate to Disc 7.

    Where things get a little complicated -- or at least aren't altogether straightforward -- is how we chose to deal with songs that appear multiple times, whether done twice as transcriptions or as a transcription and then later a commercial recording. Consider a song like "Sweet Lorraine", which appears three times (not counting the fourth, non-trio, recording with Dexter Gordon). Our formula gave priority to the 1940 Decca recording, thus the song's initial appearance on Disc 4. Despite being recorded as a transcription in 1939, we chose to include that version (and the Decca alternate) on Disc 7. "Gone with the Draft" is another good example of this.

    I get that it might not make complete sense to all, and I respect that, but there really wasn't another option that completely satisfied our desire to give Disc 7 some distinction, while also ending the set with "Straighten up and Fly Right", which closely resembles the Capitol version and is a perfect finale, in our view.

    Hope that helps a little. Glad you are enjoying the set, programming notwithstanding.
     
  5. njwiv

    njwiv Senior Member

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Thanks, Jordan. That logic seems very sound to me.
     
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  6. hodgo

    hodgo Tea Making Gort (Yorkshire Branch) Staff

    Location:
    East Yorkshire
    @jtaylor

    Jordan, many thanks for the feedback. The sequencing doesn't bother me at all, in fact as I stated up thread I'm thoroughly in love with this set from start to finish, I was just intrigued by how these things are decided. Disc seven I understand, disc six is the one that intrigued me most, because unlike discs one to five where nearly every song is in session order, disc 6 has nearly every song from those last sessions, yet the songs are just slightly out of sequence and not in the order they were recorded. For example, "I'm an Errand Boy for Rhythm" and "Straighten Up And Fly Right", which chronologically should be somewhere in the middle of disc are actually the last two songs on it, as I say this is not complaints at all, just me being curious.

    Finally, I hope this set gets grammy nominated and wins you some well deserved awards :righton:
     
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  7. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I don't recall exactly what the rationale was for the last two AFRS tracks from Disc 6. The only formal date attached to those songs, provided by the AFRS, is November 8, 1943; that date, however, is merely the date of dubbing. Recording is believed to have occurred sometime in the summer of 1943. I suspect that we placed them there because of the November date, despite the fact that the discography in the booklet lists it in chronological order. Just speculation though.

    And to go back to the overall sequencing for a moment, recall that we were obtaining source material up to the last possible moment. Had we begun the set with everything in our possession, we may very well have tinkered with the ordering just a bit. For example, I could be convinced of a Disc 7 that consisted of alternate takes + AFRS material, assuming that would be enough to fill out Disc 7 and not disrupt too much the timings on the other discs.
     
  8. Artur Torres

    Artur Torres New Improved Full Dimensional Stereo

    Location:
    Brazil
    There is no doubt that this box is the greatest tribute to Nat King Cole's centenary.
     
  9. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    I have been looking forward to this since I first heard about it. I ordered the vinyl set as soom as I could (mine is #37!). I'm finally listening to the set today. Wow!

    I particularly like hearing Oscar Moore's early acoustic style. It sounds like he's playng a 16 inch gibson L-5 or an Epiphone Deluxe.
     
  10. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    I'm guessing it's the Epiphone.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    I guess it's the Epiphone! I'll have to listen for his switch to the larger guitar in '39.

    Edit: It's things like this that make this one of the really fun threads on the SHF.
     
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  12. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    The first guitar Moore is pictured with, in 1938, is a 16 inch D'angelico! Sounds great on the records! I have a buddy who might own this particular D'A.
     
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  13. chacha

    chacha Forum Resident In Memoriam

    Location:
    mill valley CA USA
    [​IMG]
    Back on the Ramp. LP 3. Love it
     
  14. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    This seems to be one of the two "active" threads going on Nat right now so I thought I'd just drop this in...

    January 14, 2020 is the 60th anniversary of the recording of Nat King Cole Live at the Sands!
     
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Just to piggy-back a little bit on Jordan's excellent explanation....

    My concept was always to avoid what happens frequently with jazz collections: Repetition of similar takes. I am (and was) thinking specifically of reissues like the Keynote jazz collections. I love the music, but do I really need to hear Benny Carter play three straight, nearly-identical takes of "The Moon is Low" to kick off the album? It's not that I want to LOSE those versions -- they should be available in the set -- but....where?

    The thought with the Nat set was to have 6 CDs (or 9 LPs) that were "players" -- the master takes, in order, presented "for playing straight through as a set" to highlight the "main" versions. I devised a hierarchy that worked like this:

    Commercial trio master or "guest artist" version (Dexter Gordon tracks, et al) > transcription/jukebox version> alternate take > Live version

    So, if the ONLY version of a song was a live version, it appeared on the "player" disks -- the main body of the set, ensuring that each unique song was represented at least one time there. If there was a studio version and a live version, the studio version was the "player," and the live version was on the final disk, which I self-referred to as the EAR disk -- Earlies, Alternates, and Remakes. (I hated calling it a bonus disk, because some of the very best material is on the disk, and "bonus" makes it sound like it's of secondary importance or quality.) For a time, EAR was EARS: Earlies, Alternates, Remakes, and Seasonal, but late in the game, we decided to put Jingle Bells in the main section. If there was a Decca version and a Standard transcription version, the Decca version was the "player," and the Standard transcription version went on the EAR disk.

    The system was not perfect, but to my ears, it kept the bulk of the set from getting repetitive or bogged down with 4 (excellent) versions of GONE WITH THE DRAFT, while still keeping all four versions available within the set.

    I know that there is something on CD7/LP10 that is not entirely in chronological running order. I don't recall the details at this point, but it seemed to make sense at the time!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2020
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  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I *LOVE* the acoustic tracks. They have a charm all their own!
     
  17. kt66brooklyn

    kt66brooklyn Senior Member

    Location:
    brooklyn, ny
    This set is a real treat! There are so many discoveries, like Oscar Moore's development as a player, that I had no idea about before.

    You can hear him play single note solos in a way that he rsrely revisits later on. It's easy to hear why he changed his style. On the early records, the single note solos are easy to hear, because he can walk up to a microphone and play them, but his rhythm playing gets lost in the sauce.

    Then, he changes to a larger guitar (the Epiphone) and suddenly he's the rythmic anchor of the group. The single note solos recede, but a new style emerges as he leaves the acoustics and goes electric.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
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  18. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Any word on how these sets are selling?
     
  19. eeglug

    eeglug Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Why are the download versions of this set limited to 150 tracks? (eg. on bandcamp.com and others)
     
  20. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    The tracks licensed from UMe could not be included for download.
     
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  21. eeglug

    eeglug Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Any idea if they are handily available in an alternate release (download or not) or do I have to cherry pick from multiple cds/cd sets? :cool:
     
  22. lv70smusic

    lv70smusic Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Not only are certain tracks missing from the download version (at least the one on Amazon), but it isn't easy to just rip the missing tracks from the cd set and insert them into the autorip from Amazon since the missing tracks are interspersed with the others. If you want the entire set in mp3 form, it's easier just to rip the entire set and ignore Amazon's autorip.

    Maybe online databases have the tag information now (I think I submitted missing info to freedb), but ripping the discs myself required a lot of typing on my part.
     
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I talked with Zev Feldman in January, and sales were very strong. I don't feel at liberty to share the numbers publicly, but they are very positive.
     
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  24. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    GREAT! I wasn't looking for actual figures but just some good news that it's selling well. Thanks. That IS good news.
     
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  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Almost everything is here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000V698LU/ref=dm_ws_sp_ps_dp

    The alternate of SWEET LORRAINE is here: The Nat King Cole Trio - The Nat King Cole Trio (1990, CD) - Discogshttps://www.discogs.com › release , and I think that, on the whole, the mastering is a little more natural sounding on this one, but YMMV, and it varies from track to track.
     
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