Nat King Cole: "Hittin' the Ramp" - early-period set from Resonance, rel. Nov. 1, 2019*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lonson, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Price on these sets?
     
  2. George P

    George P Way Down Now

    Location:
    NYC
    $99.99 CD

    $199.99 LP
     
    RSteven, CBackley and rxcory like this.
  3. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    As a NKC completist, can't wait for this to come out. I see that several of the top NKC researcher's have put this together.
    Can't wait.
     
    MLutthans, RSteven and jtaylor like this.
  4. Beaneydave

    Beaneydave Forum Resident

    Very nice to see this sort of effort being made.
    Hoping to sells enough to support more of the same moving forward


    peace and love✌Dave
     
    MLutthans, RSteven and CBackley like this.
  5. Record Rotator

    Record Rotator A vintage/retro-loving sentimental fool

    Count me in.
     
    MLutthans and RSteven like this.
  6. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Given the age and types of the sources (needle drops, right?, is the LP version going to be worth spending double the price on?
     
  7. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    Every person who has been involved in this project has been essential to getting it done and done well. However, just so everyone knows and there is no doubt:

    This set would never have existed--EVER--if not for @MLutthans.
     
  8. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I can't decide what's worth it or not -- that's up to the buyer, of course, and for those who have become disillusioned with CD mastering of late, I will say again that the CDs were mastered separately from the LPs, and with much care to not brickwall, smash, or funk-up in any way. They turned out very well, to my ears. Regarding the needle drops aspect, because tape did not exist (at least in North America) at the time of these recordings, everything here stems from a disk of some sort or other, and at some point has been transferred (either to analog tape or to digital) from an original disk source. That's just the nature of the beast with pre-tape recordings.

    •78 RPM shellac disks ("78s") -- these were only used in this set when there was no alternative (when nothing resembling a "master" exists). Only a handful of tracks are from shellac 78s, almost all in new transfers.
    •The vast majority of tracks here (I'd guess 85%????) come from 1930s and 1940s *original* 33-1/3 RPM 16" VINYL transcription disks, which are generally of much higher fidelity than 78s, with far less surface noise -- pre-microgroove, with a groove more akin to a 78, but on vinyl at 33-1/3. Some sound extremely good and "hi-fi"-like. Dozens of these tracks are in brand-new transfers.

    A few tracks came from dubs of metal parts, tape backups of no-longer-surviving disks, etc. -- that sort of thing is hard to completely avoid in a set of this scope -- but the above two bullet-point categories account for, I'm guessing, a solid 90% of the content. It's a very well-sourced set.
     
  9. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Thank you. Have you heard both formats at this point?

    A beautifully recorded analog master tape should sound significantly better on properly mastered and cut vinyl over a CD. That's because the bandwidth on the original recording is so high. So the question is how much better the LP version is, if any, given the sources? If you think the two formats, in this particular case, sound pretty close, then it might not be worth spending an extra $100 for some. If there is some advantage, even slight, it might be worth it for some to pay the extra for the LP.

    Can you say if the LP version holds any distinct sonic improvement over the CD at this point?
     
  10. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    @AnalogJ --

    Wide bandwidth would be the least of my concerns on this set (or virtually any set of this vintage). (That said, unless I had a significant, legitimate reason to tone down the high frequencies, i.e, some sort of high frequency distortion or "fluffy" sounds that needed to be rolled off or filtered, HF content was not curtailed.)

    The LPs and CDs are going to have differences -- largely subtle ones -- only because they were not done simultaneously. Is one better than the other? The timeline for the CD set allowed me a little more time to do further source cleanup, subtle EQ changes, etc. so there may be a little more refinement to that set -- be that for better or for worse -- while the LPs are perhaps subtly more "what's on the originals" -- be that better or worse -- but I am talking a matter of degrees, not anything that's going to reach out and grab you in an "Oh my word, that's different" kind of way, by and large.

    I played CD #6 today, and thought it was great.
     
  11. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Location:
    Salem, MA
    Thanks for the thoughtful post.

    I'm a pretty big fan of NKC, although I came to the game fairly late in the game (late 1990s). I got a few DCCs on vinyl. Then got an S&P of one I didn't have.

    And then along came the 45rpm series from Analogue Productions, with Steve Hoffman mastering on the fly from the 3-track session masters. They're spectacular, and not cheap. I have all of them.

    Something like this new set, given the sources, may be one where I can save a century by buying the CD set, as long as they're sonically close.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
    Kkfan, hodgo, RobCos02330 and 2 others like this.
  12. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    Can we get a track list? I am sure my pre Capitol collection could use an upgrade, Just curious how many I already have.
     
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The King Cole Trio's Pre-Capitol Recordings?

    (Note that disc 7 is what I think of as the "Earlies/Alternates/Remakes" disk, i.e., early versions, alternate versions, and remakes of tunes that appeared elsewhere in the set. Note, too, that some of the best tracks in the whole set appear on this disc, so it's no throwaway by any stretch of the imagination.)
     
    Fred Dender, njwiv, rxcory and 5 others like this.
  14. JamieC

    JamieC Senior Member

    Location:
    Detroit Mi USA
    You Got me. Gotta have this. Nat instros? Yes please!
     
    RSteven, George P and MLutthans like this.
  15. MPLRecords

    MPLRecords Owner of eleven copies of Tug of War

    Location:
    Lake Ontario
    Fantastic news!
     
    RSteven likes this.
  16. RobCos02330

    RobCos02330 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    Thanks for taking the time with this post. It only gets me more excited. I just told my wife. She said “Christmas is coming”, but that’s sometimes the kiss of death. I’ll be ordering this on my own. :laugh:
     
    hodgo, MLutthans, CBackley and 3 others like this.
  17. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    Matt does this set compliment the VJC set " Early Transcriptions " & " The Macgregor Years " sets. I own both of those.
     
    Simon A likes this.
  18. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
    It features everything that was on the VJC set and the lone MacGregor session (February 25, 1941) that Nat participated in prior to joining Capitol. The bulk of the trio's work for MacGregror, which appears on the Music & Arts set, was done in 1944-45 and so is outside the scope of the Resonance set.
     
  19. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Lord! That track listing is to say the least IMPRESSIVE!!!! What an enormous undertaking. I cannot wait to receive my copy (or copies)!
     
  20. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    Matt & JT … the song " I Like To Riff " Dec, 1939 it is on the Savoy CD ZDS 1205. Were you able to improve the sound for that was taken and mastered from a bad 78. In fact, the entire Dec, 1939 Ammor session (5 songs) was in dire need of improvement.
     
  21. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Sorry if I missed it, but has it been stated how many will be pressed for both the LP and CD sets?
     
  22. jtaylor

    jtaylor Senior Member

    Location:
    RVA
  23. njwiv

    njwiv Senior Member

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Cannot wait!
     
    MLutthans likes this.
  24. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
  25. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The four Ammor tracks have no surviving masters, so we got new transfers of 78s from Rutgers (Institute of Jazz Studies), and I personally also transferred all four sides while at an archive in California. The Rutgers discs were cleaner, so those became the source for all but about 20 seconds (and that inserted portion came from yet another transfer, not mine).

    I think the new versions are substantially more natural sounding, but I did relatively little to try to filter out noise. Don't blame me, though. Blame drummer Lee Young! He did some very tasty cymbal work on these tracks, and I was determined to let his cymbals come through in all their glory, without noise-reducing the life out of them.

    Those Ammor tracks were tricky, as there's a fine line between how much shellac noise was ok vs. how clear the cymbals needed to be. I let Lee's drumming call the shots on those tracks, and let the noise be what the noise is.

    I have not played the Savoy CD versions of the Ammor tracks in a long time, but my recollection is that they sounded like they came from a fairly hissy tape dub, although I may be misremembering. Regardless, we have shiny, new transfers, and, I think, a substantial improvement, albeit with a plenty of inherent noise audible, and a little distortion in spots. (No audible tape hiss, though!)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019

Share This Page

molar-endocrine