Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 20, 2010.
Dunno mate. It says mono, so I press the button!
Silly willy. No need. We took care of that for you, in the mastering. All part of the service.
Cheers. I'll give it a shot.
Damn, what can I use the mono button for? It's even on the fancy remote!
Man, how I wish I had a mono button.
I got one on my Adcom pr-amp, but never use it.
Use it for mono records (or stereo RUBBER SOUL )
I'll ask a question again that went unanswered earlier in the thread. Does the CD layer of "Very Thought of You" contain only the 16 stereo tracks? Because it specifically says on the Analogue Productions website in their product description for ""The Very Thought of You" SACD:
So I went ahead and ordered the CD, which arrived today. But the back of the case says "CD Layer=Tracks 1-16 playable as stereo only. Due to space, no mono mixes included on the CD layer." Which completely contradicts the product description that is still on both their website and Acoustic Sounds' website.
Can someone who owns the CD give me a definitive answer? I don't own a SACD player, so I might return it if there is no mono mix at all on the CD layer.
I have "Love Is The Thing" on SACD and the redbook CD layer runs over 72 minutes with 24 tracks...both mono and stereo mixes...SATISFIED?
No, because I meant to say "The Very Thought of You." That's the one I mean. (I sure wish you could edit your posts after a few minutes on this website.)
Anyway, my previous post was SUPPOSED to say "The Very Thought of You," not "Love is the Thing." Is the mono mix of the album available on the CD layer for "Very Thought of You"? It says it is on the Analogue Productions website, that only the bonus tracks are not in mono on the CD layer; but on the back of the CD itself, it says there are no mono tracks at all on the CD layer.
OOOPS!!! My bad, Brian!!! To answer your question, the CD redbook layer for "The Very Thought Of You" is stereo mixes only...16 songs running over 56 minutes! Apologies for the confusion!!!
Your bad? My bad!
Short answer: yes. Long answer: It might be addressed in the thread for that title. As stated above, that description applies for Love Is The Thing (and Just One of Those Things and St. Louis Blues as well). The Very Thought of You however is 16 tracks, over 55 mins long, so both mono and stereo would far exceed the 80min CD limit. All of it was fit onto the SACD layers but the CD specs do not allow it. Selecting some tracks is a different licensing can of worms (who is permitted to recompile the tracklisting only being the first) and this project was already very far from easy or assured.
I'd like to clarify and/or raise the points that, as with the stereo mixes on the standard CD layers of other titles in this series, the stereo mix on the standard CD layer is also Steve Hoffman's new mix direct from the original 3-track session tapes using the customized gear at AcousTech to a top-notch 16bit A/D conversion. So the standard CD layer is also of the highest quality, not at all skimped on or an afterthought nor sourced from a mix/mastering available on any other release. The sound differs appreciably from what one will find on any other CD release of this material. Also due to the recording, as with St. Louis Blues the mono of this title does not differ from the stereo as drastically as it does for Love Is The Thing. The 45 rpm vinyls of all except of course After Midnight are stereo only.
These won't be available forever while the common editions, let's say they don't sound like this. I hope you'll keep it as a premium CD if you like and enjoy the CD layer until what time if any you also acquire SACD playback.
THE VERY THOUGHT OF YOU SACD/CD
We could have fit some of the monos on the CD part but which ones? Who would pick them? Just a can of worms all the way around. I did think about it though. Ultimately it would be a mono "Highlights from THE VERY THOUGHT OF YOU" and since no one could agree on WHICH songs, it was pointless to even consider it...
LOVE IS THE THING of course has mono and stereo on the CD section. The album is short enough. THE VERY THOUGHT OF YOU including the bonus tracks has 16 songs, some quite long. 32 songs was too much for the CD section.
Maybe you could have put half of the mono album songs on the left stereo track and half on the right. (yes, i am joking.)
Actually I did think of that (like an old 16 RPM talking book for the blind type of thing).
Problem is, only about 1/2 of listeners even have a balance control in their playback system (I don't) and short of disconnecting wires, not much else could be done...
In the early 1990s, when the CD manufacturing cost was still a factor, some audiobooks were released that way, thereby doubling the CD playing time for mono recordings.
I just recently acquired Love Is The Thing on SACD and have to say it sounds absolutely magical. Nat's voice sounds like a living person in the room singing next to you, as you listen. Stereophile I think has used this term in reviews, but I finally think I understand now when they describe a recording as having holographic imaging. Analogue Productions has really outdone themselves on it.
Review and Comparison Between 45rpm and DCC LP
I have had both the "Love is the Thing" and "The Very Thought of You" DCC LPs since they came out, mostly as a result of Michael Fremer's recommendation in The Tracking Angle, his print magazine from the '90s. I absolutely LOVE LITT as an album. I like TVTOY quite a bit, too, but it doesn't hit me the same way as LITT.
I was really curious, after reading the posts about the new AP Nat King Cole series, as to whether they would really be a sufficient improvement over the DCCs to warrant the large purchase price. I ordered both "After Midnight" and LITT to try out the 45s.
Thus far, I have only listened to the AP LITT. There is a distinct difference between the DCC and AP - in some areas I am not surprised while in others I am. The AP presentation is much more integrated. Cole's voice is not as dramatically different in size compared to the orchestra with the AP the way it is with the DCC. With the DCC, Cole's voice is almost blimp size. Moreover, with the slight warm bass bump in the DCC, Cole's voice sounds a bit too resonant in the lower chest making a part of his voice sound deeper than it sounds on the AP. Also, there is less reverb on the AP, almost none at all, making Cole sound more present and current, as though this could have been recorded this year. I am convinced the Cole's voice sounds more the way it did in real life through the AP.
The orchestra is less highlighted and less caramel, less sweetened on the AP. The orchestra also sounds more real for the same reasons I stated above with Cole's voice, making this an entirely more current sounding presentation. Everything is drier. The recording also sounds a bit less dynamic and punchy, a hair reined in, a surprise to me, but in a good way. Comparatively, the DCC sounds a hair overly hifi or hyped, compared to the AP. The AP listening experienced is just more relaxed, which is probably appropriate given the material.
That being said, the DCC is wicked good. Is it essential that you run out and replace the DCC with this one? No, because the DCC is still great and musically stunning. The AP, though, is an even better listen. Besides, once this set is sold out, either the DCC or AP will still fetch more than you likely paid for them. I have a feeling I'll be selling the DCC, which means I'll HAVE to pick up the "Where Did Everyone Go?" (as well as the "St. Louis Blues") album, because I'll be losing the songs I like off of the DCC.
Having recently picked up a great mono original of this album, by the way, I'll say that it's worth hearing in that format. The mono mix brings out different musical lines and it makes the counter-melodies that Gordon Jenkins wrote more easy to follow.
Wonderful work, Steve Hoffman et al, and I'm not only looking forward to "After Midnight" (which I'll also report on, as I have an original), but to others from the series.
Thanks for your thoughts, J.!
My "Love is the Thing" came yesterday and I'm so stunnend... it's simply fantastic.
(Along with Sinatra's "Where Are You" this is my absolute favourite ballad concept album - and I'm so happy to have it now in such a quality)
But I have a question about the balance of the three channel mix: I have full range surround speakers, not with the same size (but they are intended as a system). I thought I corrected the levels (with pink noise and speech) - but here, the center with Nat's voice seemes surprisingly loud for me. Is this the intention of the mix or is my system not well balanced? To my ears he could be 2-3 dB lower in volume?
After reading all the posts I have an additional question... I've understood that the original stereo mix is on the SACD-layer and a stereo remix on the redbook-layer? If so, should the CD-stereo and the Mch-Mix give a similar impression concerning the balance?
Don't understand me wrong... I'm not criticizing the mix - I just want to find out if I have a problem with my center speaker.
I noticed the same - when comparing the three channel mix of When I Fall In Love with the stereo mix on the EMI UK 4 track CD I found the mix on the EMI disc has the orchestra very much more prominent - though nothing like as sweet in sound - and the vocal a tad more subdued.
Yes, but that's a difference between the stereo SACD-layer and the redbook-layer as well, as the redbook is a remix. I wonder, if the 3.0-Version should give the same impression as the stereo remix - in a "perfect" setup, listener sitting in the sweet spot, of course.
Well I can't comment as to 3-channel playback yet beyond believing you should adjust it to a way that works best for your listening pleasure.
What I can say is that it is correct to have Nat's vocal quite prominent. As was typical practice at the time; reason being, one was listening foremost to (and paying for) the vocal (or other featured soloist) and the band/orchestra is supposed to be support, not equal co-feature after all. So it was felt one should hear the feature "loud and clear." The presentation goes accordingly. Observe the mono, which of course is not remixed (being recorded and mixed live to mono) where his voice is defined up front-and-center (so to speak). As far as intent goes the mono is the "yardstick" here.
Remixes may ignore that intent, sometimes leveling, EQ-ing, compressing and narrowing the mix to a more homogenized presentation; presumably it's thought to be a more "modern" and, it's assumed, desired result. These releases aren't concerned with those presumptions.
Separate names with a comma.