Need advice on fully automatic TT

You should not have remove the tonearm to loosen the headshell connector. Go to your hardware store and buy a #1 stubby phillips screwdriver or a #1 right angle phillips screwdriver.

 

I absolutley love this Technics SL-1600 MK2!

About half of my albums are my originals from being a kid. I have to give myself props for taking good care of them. 70’s, 80’s rock, then I got into Punk Rock with a few New Wave bands. Sorts bummed my mom sold all my KISS records in a garage sale back in the late 80’s, I had every one until they took their makeup off. I gave her permission at the time. Lol, my first concert was KISS at 6 yrs old. Still remember parts of it.

Anyone looking at a full auto, this one has been great so far.

The adjustment for where the needle drops on auto is adjustable and has easy access. It’s under a grey rubber plug about 11:00 on the tone arm rotary platform. It is very sensitive though, just a small nudge is needed. Auto end lift adjustment is a bit more difficult, it’s not a brass screw but a weird looking lever with a slot in it for a screwdriver head to go into. It’s accessed through the same hole. Make sure to put your stylus cover guard on, because to see the pin you need to move to adjust it, you have to swing the tonearm and it comes in sight. All adjustments clockwise on both screw/lever move the tonearm further from the spindle. (Also writing this for my memory and easy look up - MS is a bitch sometimes).

Tonearm effective mass = 12g including headshell (I think the headshell weighs 7.5 g’s). Headshell bolts weigh 2g (not sure on that either.) The tone arm is the same as the technics 1200 MK2 from what I gather though not 100%.

Resonant Frequency:
1000/(6.28 X (square root of effective mass of tone arm+weight of bolts+cartridge compliance). Want the range to be between 8-12 hz.

The Ortofon Bronze weighs 7.2 grams and has a compliance of 22.

So the Ortofon Bronze’s Resonant Frequency is 7.37 hz which is not ideal but sounds great to me and I have no tracking problems that I can observe. I didn’t figure this all out until I wonderd why on the Ortofon website a Bronze was not listed as recommended for the technics 1200 mk2 tonearm. Of course this happened after I bought it.

My Vincent Pho-701 sounds best with switch 1 on only for an added 115pF capacitance. The Vincent already has a input capcitance of 15pF. The RCA’s out of the Technics at roughly three feet, equal roughly an estimated 35pF per foot so another 105pF. Total equals 235 which is in spec with the Ortofon 2M wanting 150-300 capacitance range.

I’ve learned all this through you guys/gals on this website. A Huge Thank You To All!

It’s been fun and educational but really reminds me that I like to figure this type of stuff out and why.

 

An after thought. I bought a full auto Pioneer PL7 for my GF. It sounds excellent with an Ortrfon OM10. I noticed very few of the PL7 fail after all these years on ebay. Most are offered in good operating condition. Consider it an inexpensive alternate vs the classic full auto direct drive Technics that cost at least 3-5x as much. PL7s cost $50 to $150.

 

A vintage turntable you might consider would be the Garrard Zero-100. With it's moving headshell, reminiscent of the true-tangent Capehart flipover changers of the 1940's, it's like a linear-tracking turntable which you can put a stack of records on and relax. Swap the spindles and it's a fully-automatic single-player. With the control levers, it makes it easy for someone with a dexterity issue to operate.
garrard zero 100 - Bing images

 

I would say the Pioneer PL7 has a far superior tone arm vs the Garrard Zero-100.

 

Dang. I screwed up on the equation I wrote out.

Resonant Frequency = 1000/(6.28 x square root of (mass of tone arm x cartridge compliance)

Mass of Tone Arm = weight of the cartridge + weight of bolts + tone arm mass which includes headshell weight.

My numbers are the same though.

That Garrard looks cool. Touch screens aren't really the future. .

 

Just to follow up on the rabbit hole I fell into thanks to this site

I now own three of the recommended tables:

Technics 1600mk2
Kenwood KD-5070
Pioneer Pl-630

Once in that rabbit hole I found other shoots and decided to buy backups of all three. Yep, six new turntables within 6 months. Yes, my wife has free reign over how many pairs of shoes she wants to buy.

So some quick thoughts for anyone else looking at these 1980’s vintage tables.

Technics 1600 Mk2 - it’s the darkest of the three, but in a good way. Picture a mildly smoky bar with ladies in long open leg cocktail dresses, dressed to kill. A band playing in the corner, some pool tables off in the distance and dark leather couches with cocktail stands on each side. This table has such an alluring sound. Especially with female vocals. It’s my goto to for Classical, Jazz, Blues, and anything from the 70’s. It all sounds so balanced to that time. Darkly warm but cool. The precision and movement of the arm is top notch, to boot, just perfect it seems and smooth. Best technical movement of the three. VTA adjustment is a breeze and a brilliant design. Also the easiest to work on. Replacing the tonearm belt is easy, just take off the cover and its right there. The only speed pot to deoxit is front and center too. Easiest of the bunch. (Haven't needed to take off the tonearm assembly yet though). Upgraded one with the KAB tonearm damper and KAB base plate under the motor/spindle. Using a Dynavector 15x10 in one, Ortofon Bronze in the other. Both great sounding carts with the 1600 Mk2. Love her mood.

Kenwood KD-5070. Ms. Natural, the Covergirl. Completely neutral and unaltered which is awesome and refreshing. Want to hear your music? This is the perfect exposure model. The lens is fully focused here and F stop spot on. This one looks cool too with the white limestone Plithe. I have no preference of what style of music to play on the kd-5070. It’s all game and one I use most around the family. It’s also the only one I showed them how to use. Mechanically, the tonearm movement is the clunkier of the three in the full auto stages. Though don’t get me wrong, it’s still nice, just not as precise as the other two. I do have some work to do on these. I haven't opened it up yet but I have bought all three different versions of dampening oil it uses. It doesn't use a tone arm belt either, it’s mechanical thus the damping oils. I’m sure my two units have never been serviced so I’m looking forward to seeing the tonearm movement once properly dampened with the oil. This is where the service manual is a must. It shows what type of fluid and where. The KD-5070 was definitely was designed around the use of damping oil. I’m sure it will be stellar. There is only one problem with this table I have found. Even though it is “The Rock” it is susceptible to footfalls compared to the others. That was eliminated with isopads immediately. The feet are plastic and an easy upgrade. Also, adding modeling clay to the inside base I read helps eliminate it too. Maybe Kenwood just assumed everyone was going to change out the feet and that the oil dampening would compensate. Been using an AT -pro13e and a Stanton L720 p-mount with adapter (both came with the TT’s) and sound great. Haven't dialed in where I want to go cart wise with it yet. The all-around’r

Pioneer PL-630. She is the brightest of the bunch. This one is for feeling energetic. This table gets you off your feet. This is a weekend table...Friday nite... all day Saturday... Sunday funday. Lets’s take the car for a spin around some curves...and boy does it like going around those curves. This is your sports car. The styling and button response are just so unique too. Precision. The engineering on this one is so 80’s Japanese with a Delorian sipping a cognac. Once you gently depress the start button, the arm moves but the record has yet to begin spinning. Once half way to touchdown, the platter goes instantly to speed and the cartridge gently touches down and that splendid sound we all cherish enlightens the senses. It’s just like tactfully making a move on a woman wearing nothing under a fur coat. Surprise and spark- we are in the 80’s aren't we. So what’s under the hood? To replace her belt there is some work to do. First the feet need to be attended to. You have to take the four long bolts out, unsnap two wire connectors, then the plithe goes up just like a hood on a car with the hinges at the front of the car. Now she’s exposed. To get to the belt there are four screws to remove and the tonearm assembly get tilted up and rests on the spindle. make sure to have small towels at hand not to scrape any finish. Once the tone arm is on her side, the motor and wheels are readily and easily accessible for a new belt. Only use the specific square belt. She’s a high class lady. At this point cleaning the gears is easy and I also took off the C clip to go deeper and remove the gears to oil and lube. A little apprehensive at first but thrilling experience. Dexoiting the speed pots is easy with the “hood” up. I hit them good and was rewarded with no more speed issues between quartz lock and manual. I have been using a Stanton 881s which came with the table which produces divine results. Perfect match. I would like an LOMC for her but still shopping and not sure which direction to go.

Conclusion: these are all stellar tables and exactly what I was after. Each one of them sound extraordinary to me. Each one unique, each one a different mood. I could never pick a favorite. I love my harem.

Thanks for the recommendations!

 

Good to hear your thoughts on the Kenwood 5070 that I suggested. I’ll PM you about the damping oils, I’m sure mine needs a little attention, the “clunky” was an apt description. In addition my cue lever is very stiff, I try not to use it as it can drop too hard, but this was the only real flaw in the one I purchased.

BTW, I’ve got a Sumiko Bluepoint Special EVO III HOMC on mine, fantastic sound.

 

Your Bronze cart is fine, even it it was not specifically recommended.

Stay away from the Black with an automatic TT. It is just not a good match and I have them both.

 

Excuse me? The Pioneer PL7 is a piece of junk and has a toy tone arm. The Garrard Zero-100 has a true-tangent tone arm.

 

Big issues with Duals, they need regular maintenance, their mechanism has wear parts, and the headshell system likes to give you intermittent problems from time to time. I love the better Duals when properly rebuilt, but they're a PITA sometimes.

 

And the Garrard will need extensive, labor intensive rebuilding to function correctly. Every bit of that old Garrard grease which turns to cement must go. It must be lubricated in the proper areas, with the correct lubricant. Pay someone to do that, it will most likely cost double or more the original price when new. Early models will likely be in need of an idler rebuild too. It's also a record changer, and is a complex mechanism and a lot to service and overhaul. It's like trying to get a 1971 Jaguar XJ6 sedan from barn find to regularly driven. It was nice when working correctly. The arm concept would be better today with today's precision bearings and modern materials. This was Garrard's last decent hurrah.

 

I have to agree. The Zero 100 was a brilliant concept, poorly realized. I'd love to see the idea resurface today.

 

Well there are a few tangential tracking pivoted arms available, though most are rather expensive. Thales has a very well regarded lineup with extremely low tracking angle error and with built in skating compensation ...



Frank Schröder came up with a very elegant design for his LT tonearm, manufactured mainly by Steve Dobbins in Europe, this one avoids skating forces, though another very expensive example...

 

The Garrard Zero arm was preceded by the B-J tonearm from England in the 1950's. Just to give some history.

 

There's some more history on the Thales technology page for the Garrard and the Bourne-Jones ...

Thales - Technology

 

One of the fully automatics I have happens to be a Zero 100 and it's the third one that's come into my possession.

Probably not the best choice for someone entering turntabledom unless it was reliably reconditioned. In which case, considering the amount of work they need, the price might be uncomfortably high.

My first was a pain in the ass because I reconditioned it by sections as I had never dealt with one before. When finished and in use, I happened upon another so now somewhat confident, I engaged in the same process. Since there was going to be a second Zero 100 "waiting in the wings" I included the first in a multiple turntable trade. Soon after the second one was completed, I was talked into relinquishing by someone who really admired it.

Eventually another came along that I have no intention of parting with. Partly because they are labor intensive and I don't really want to mess with another one but also, they are getting less common and more expensive.

I have no desire to chase the brass ring so don't seek perfection in any of my turntables. They seem prone to criticism by some for one reason or another but there's nothing about a Zero 100's performance or construction that dissatisfies me. All I want in my small stable are good turntables and a Zero 100 is certainly that in my opinion.

 

I can understand why a bunch can't really get their head around full auto turntables...but for a few of us, they make complete sense.

This is my desk set-up. Really wild to think these Turntables were the top of the line full auto's in 1980 right before it all imploded due to the CD.

I dig it and it is the prefect fit for me in so many ways.

 

There are a lot of nice vintage turntables on the market, be they Thoren's, Garrard, Dual or some other brand.

When dealing with a vintage turntable, buying from someone who buys and restores them professionally is called for.

I think that this applies to any vintage product.

 

I like my Technics SL-1300 which is fully automatic. It doesn’t have quartz lock but the servo speed control is still very steady.

 

Just to give a little more history, from what I previously mentioned, Capehart did it in the 1930's. Here is a link to one: The Fabulous Capehart

 

I never trusted myself around manual/auto-return TTs, and I have no impeding conditions; I'm just kinda doorky, so I ended up with a fully auto Pioneer. So you have my sympathy. And congrats on the new TT ! Was the Denon not satisfactory sound-wise ? Just curious.

 

That is what I like about the vintage Dual 1219's. Put the record on the platter and turn the Dual to play.

The arm lifts up, the platter starts up, the arm sets down on the record.

When the record is over, the arm lifts up and returns back to its rest and the turntable motor shuts off.

 

Bliss.

 

I don't know if I would be playing my best records on it a lot (if at all) but for average used records, it is perfectly fine.

I was even thinking of setting it up with the tall automatic spindle, so I could put two or three used records on it at a time.

Like everyone used to day, back when. Which is why the record changer was invented in the first place.