Need suggestions for an SACD/DVD player under $800

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by tone ded freb, Feb 14, 2004.

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  1. tone ded freb

    tone ded freb Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona Snowbowl
    I am looking for something that plays both SACDs and DVDs. I will not be watching movies on it any time soon but want to listen to DADs (therein lies the need for it to play DVDs), so audio performance is more important than video performance. I want it to play SACDs and CDs at least as well as my unmodded sony SCD-C222ES 5-disc carousel. I will not spend more than $800. I do not need the ability to play DVD-A or listen to multichannel.

    I've done a good deal of searching online, leaving three sony models at the top of my list, the DVP-S9000ES (single disc/not multichannel), DVP-NS999ES (single disc/multichannel), and DVP-NC555ES (5-disc carousel/multichannel). Of the three, the 9000ES is the most solidly built. The 555ES is the newest, presumably with the newest technology. The 9000ES and the 999ES are supposed to share the same transport. The 9000ES is only available used. The 9000ES and 555ES would be fairly close in price. The 999ES would cost somewhat more. I think that with each of these players the video circuitry can be turned off when playing audio discs, but that probably doesn't go for playing DADs.

    One of the things I don't like about my 222ES is that I can hear SACDs spinning inside the player when they are playing, with the noise being most noticeable closer to the beginning of discs, when they are spinning faster. So, I hope the 555ES does not have that problem, although I have read that its changer mechanism is just as clunky as that of the 222ES. If the noise is limited to that sort of clunkiness heard when switching between discs, I could live with that.

    Aside from these three, I am open to other suggestions. Does any one have any preference among the three on my list or any other ideas? Thanks! :righton:
     
  2. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    You said that you don't need to be able to play DVD-Audio, but why? I suggest you take a look at the Denon DVD-2200 universal player. It's $600, and it's a very solid component. Yes, I decided to step up to the '2900, but that doesn't change the fact that the '2200 is a very good player. I've always liked Sony's ES SACD players, so I certainly will not discourage you from any of them, but still look at the Denon. You may like its performance with SACD and CD, plus you get DVD-Audio.

    My brother has the Sony 'S9000ES, and he absolutely loves it. It is a sweet machine, though I suspect that it has been surpassed on the video side by newer players. It doesn't sound like that's a deal breaker for you. The bummer is that one can't get a new 'S9000ES. Sony did scale back the build quality with the 'NS999ES.
     
  3. JonUrban

    JonUrban SHF Member #497

    Location:
    Connecticut
    The Denon 2900 is also doable in your price range. I love mine, and the SACD performance is fine with me! The video is outstanding! (DVD-V), plus you also have DVD-A for future use if needed (B-E-A-T-L-E-S) :D
     
  4. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

  5. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    You already have a multichannel player, and yet you don't want that. So don't get another multichannel player. There's a bunch of circuitry and components you don't need and compromises have been made to fit the price point. Sony transports are all pretty similar, except for the SCD-1 and SCD-777ES - those have the best transports Sony made. Sony transports in general are not that great, and the noise you hear is not uncommon. Only when the alignment is perfectly set will there be no noise from these transports.

    The changer mechanism is clunky. The 222, 333 (stereo) and 555 all use the same system and it's pretty ordinary, and takes up a lot of space inside the player. Just on tactile sensation alone, I much prefer loading and playing a disc in my modified SCD-XA777ES than in my SCD-C333ES.

    A used 9000 seems to me to be your best option. A very nice SACD player, but not state-of-the-art for DVD video production - but that does not bother you. I have never heard a DAD through this unit, so cannot comment on the sound. Because the 9000 has the VC24 chip you can apply Allen Wright's modification (a board that is fitted inside with new RCA outputs) and this will make an outstanding player. Norm on AA has a 9000 with Allen's Level 4 mods and has compared this player to his SACD-1000/Meitner combination ($12k) and decided to sell the Meitner.

    If you don't want DVD-Audio, then don't get a player that can deal with that format. Both KeithH and oblio98 were surprised at your stance, but I understand. These two members are serious about multichannel and DVD-Audio - you are not.

    Edit (10:35am):

    One other option. An Alex Peychev modified Pioneer DV563. Ron Welborne of Welborne Labs (very fine valve amplifiers with no axe to grind) really liked it.
    See this thread
    here for his original post and some followups.
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I wouldn't put much stock in that Home Theater SPOT! thread. This is not to say that the Marantz '6400 isn't a good player, but that thread has practically no input over a month. One guy there said he hasn't heard anything good about the '2900. Where has he been? :rolleyes:

    I just got a '2900 and I love it.

    How good is the '6400? What concerned me there when I was looking for a DVD-Audio player for my second system was the build quality. It looks like a Denon DVD-1200 with SACD added in for $200 extra ($400 for the '1200 and $600 for the '6400).
     
  7. tone ded freb

    tone ded freb Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Arizona Snowbowl
    Thanks for the input, guys.

    I did a little reading on the 6400. I think that it weighs 5 pounds. Pretty light. There isn't much in the way of reviews to be found online, but some said it was bass-shy and lacking in the mid-range.

    Does anyone have experience with sony b-stock? I could get a b-stock 9000ES, purportedly with a 5-year warranty, for $500.

    As to the pioneer DV563, does that convert SACD to PCM or is it true DSD?
     
  8. Joseph

    Joseph Senior Member

    Yes the Pioneer is true DSD.
    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=20648&page=5&pp=20
     
  9. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Thanks for the info. on the sound of the '6400. The fact that it weighs just 5 lbs. concerned me. As I said, it looks like a lot like the Denon DVD-1200, just with SACD added in.

    I don't have personal experience with Sony B-stock. Where would you be getting it from? From Sony direct? Crutchfield also sells B-stock as "Scratch and Dent", and they are legit. If you are going through Sony or Crutchfield, then you will probably be O.K. Often times, B-stock simply means that there is some blemish on the unit somewhere. It could be an ugly blemish (e.g., a large scratch on the front panel), so inquire before buying. Other times, it could be that the unit was defective and was repaired. If you can get some info. on the history of the component, then you might find that $500 is a great deal.
     
  10. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Funny, I've read reviews to the opposite (here's one http://www.audioreview.com/PRD_290386_1587crx.aspx) on the sound. In the past, the Marantz players tended to be Pioneers for the video with a redone audio stage. I'm not sure about the 6400. I mean, I bought the Pioneer DV-45a, and that's not exactly a tank LOL Same price range (when it was new). The 2900 is clearly ~ a $900 player (list anyway), putting it closer to the 8400.

    Here's one neg review of the 2900 from http://www.audioreview.com/DVD Players/Denon/PRD_171729_1587crx.aspx:
    "Don't sell your current SACD player before you purchase the DVD-2900 as a replacement. Compare them. My Sony SCD-555ES puts it to shame. I was hoping the audio reviews I've read were inacturate, they are not. There is no mid-bass to mid-range. CD performance IS poor. but I was not looking for this. DVD-Audio is of no interest to me, but, sounds bright to me. Video performance is excellent.

    Your asking, "why did he buy this thing". 1st, looking to replace my old Toshiba DVD player with progressive. 2nd, looking to replace the Sony SCD-555ES. Wanted a 1 box solution. Paid way to much for just a very good DVD player. Should have purchased to DVD-2200. I then may have been able to trade up if I wanted. Brick and Mortar store would not let me exchange nor return it after having it for just 3 days. I will also never deal with them again after purchasing over $8000 of audio gear the last 3 years. "

    So YMMV ... you like the 2900, he hates it. Admittedly, a lot of people in that thread like the 2900 (it gets a 4.42 out of 5).

    Arguably, the transport in the 2900 is probably better than the 6400, but I hope so for more money.

    I have owned and do own a bunch of Marantz equipment, and I'd be really suprised if it was light in the bass department. It's one of the reasons I love Marantz stuff is the low end! I have yet to be underwhelmed by Marantz yet. I remember auditioning CD players awhile back and my ear always went back to the Marantz.

    In the end, it's all about what YOU like, of course. If I was going to spend that much ($900) to get a uni player, I'd spend a few extra shekels and get a DV-8400 if I wanted both for playback. I have my dedicated SA-8260, and the DV-45a is my DVD-A/DVD-V player, so that's not necessary. One thing for me is that Marantz uses the Crystal DACs (to date anyway), and Denon/Pioneer, Burr Brown. That has a lot to do with it ...
     
  11. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Dupe post deleted
     
  12. Cliff

    Cliff Magic Carpet Man

    Location:
    Northern CA
    I have the 999ES and love it. I use it for DVD-V and SACD/CD. You can turn the video and front display on or off at any time. I have not compared it to the Denon or Pioneer Elite line for SACD Playback though.
     
  13. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    StyxCollector, there will always be varying reviews of any component. I have not used the Marantz '6400, so I cannot comment on its performance. Marantz certainly does not turn out garbage, so I'm sure the '6400 is a capable player. I just would like to see Marantz offer more options in universal players, as the build quality of the '6400 is lacking for the price.

    I was looking for DVD-Audio for my second system and first went with the Denon '2200 and then traded up to the '2900. The '2900 sounds very good to me with DVD-Audio, CD, and SACD, though I need to compare it more to other SACD/CD players I have.
     
  14. JonUrban

    JonUrban SHF Member #497

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I have a Denon 2900 which I use for DVD-V's, DVD-A's and SACD's. I just purchased a SONY DVP-CX777ES, which is a Sony ES MegaChanger that does SACD.

    Having listened to SACDs on the 2900 for about 6 months, I am pretty much used to it. To me, it sounds great! I have a fairly high end system (DENON 5800 Receiver, etc), but I have not noticed anything wrong with the SACD playback.

    Anyway, when I bought the SONY DVP-CX777ES, which I bought for DVD-V storage, NOT SACD playback, I wondered if the SACD playback would sound different than the DENON, since a lot of folks tend to lean towards a SONY machine for SACD playback.

    While I did not do extensive listening tests, the two machines perform fairly equally to my 50 year old ears. Same detail, same soundstage. I even listened to a stereo SACD, Steve's Bob James disc, and it sounded equally impressive on each machine.

    So, what can I say. Your results may vary. Granted, a 400 disc megachanger is not going to outperform a $1000 single disc player, but it is all that I had to compare with.
     
  15. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    YMMV always applies. When I got the SA-8260, I noticed a big difference between it and the DV-45a. I'll bet if I got a DV-6400/8400 or a Denon 2200/2900 etc., there may not be big gulf between that and the SA-8260. And it depends on your receiver, speakers, wire, etc.

    It's always fun to have these arguments because people's systems are tailored to their ears, not anyone else's.
     
  16. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Yeah ... it's like shopping for speakers. The more you hear, sometimes the more confused you get (see my separate post on my current dilemma). The 2900 across the board gets pretty good reviews, and both Denon and Marantz are owned by the same parent company.

    The problem with Marantz is that it's just much easier to find Denon stuff - just go to a Tweeter. Marantz is not found in your garden variety store, so doing a direct A/B is tough.
     
  17. Rachael Bee

    Rachael Bee Miembra muy loca

    Tone Ded, I have a bunch of SACD players and I recommend you avoid the Denon 2900 since stereo is your focus. It's strong suite is M/C playback not stereo. I'd go with the Sony 999ES or possibly the refurb'ed 9000ES. You'll get better stereo SACD for the dollar with either of them, me thinks. I love the Denon 2900 for video and versility but it's a cut below the better Sony players for stereo. I'd tend to think you ought to go 999ES for newer video circuitry, if DVD-V is important to the equation. Good luck!
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    StyxCollector, I agree with everything you said.
     
  19. Rachael Bee

    Rachael Bee Miembra muy loca

    Keith, you and I listen to so many different players, especially you! I think it keeps us out of habitual ruts, some...?

    My problem with Marantz is their few dealers and many of them are hi-end audio dealers with a bad attitude. There's no dealer in my city. The last dealer I visited refused to set up a combi-player for demonstration and tried to convince me I needed to buy one of their stereo SACD players. Maybe they were overstocked there?! They remembered me from buying a Marantz AV9000 pre and wouldn't demonstrate me a combi-player....pitiful. I drove to stille a different city and had a similar experience except they wanted to sell me a Music Hall TT. Overstocked, agaim, I suppose???! In the future Marantz is gonna have to come to me. Sorry for ranting but too many their dealers are bitchy. They make some good stuff but it's too hard for many of to buy, seemingly...

    If I didn't already have an SCD-XA777ES, I might have bought one of the Marantz stereo players??? If I could find a dealer who didn't P me off?!
     
  20. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Rachael, that really sucks. Knock on wood, I've been lucky. The only real Marantz dealer near me is Cambridge Soundworks, and they don't stock (for sale) the 8400. I haven't been in there in awhile; they may sell the 6400 as it "speaks more" (IMHO) to their target audience. I got my SA-8260 from Audiogon.

    Natural Sound in Framingham sells Marantz, and they stock everything. Great store. You can ask for a specific speaker, cdp, dvd ... as long as they have it, they'll let you go at it.

    Yeesh ... I'd be turned off if I had that experience, too.
     
  21. Joseph

    Joseph Senior Member

    What does a SA-8260 sell for these days? :help:
     
  22. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    Joseph, last I heard, the '8260 sold for $1000 through authorized dealers. I doubt there was a price drop.
     
  23. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Usually anywhere from $600 - $800 (give or take) used or demo. I got mine on closeout for $650 last year. If you can find one $700 or under, it's a great price.

    Check out http://www.audiogon.com ... there's one up there now for $890. Be careful, as Marantz is fussy where you buy 'em from. I got mine from there from a true Marantz dealer. I had a bad remote, and they got it changed out for me no problem.

    For no DVD, but pure SACD/redbook playing, it's arguably one of the better in the $1000 (list price) range, and maybe above it. I got it prior to the DV-8400 coming out, and had I not owned the DV-45a, I probably would have just gotten that. But my system has always had a dedicated CD player, and my old CD6000 OSE is now in my back room.
     
  24. StyxCollector

    StyxCollector Man of Miracles

    Keith -

    Does the DV2900 do the text for SACDs?
     
  25. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    StyxCollector, yes, the '2900 displays text on SACDs. For what it's worth, it will scroll text on a TV screen as well as the front-panel display. I noticed that as I played a DVD-Audio disc and then left the TV on when I played an SACD.
     
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