Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Veltri, Jul 1, 2019.
Netflix's Sandman trailer: The Dream is finally real
This is going to a tough one, because the incredibly creepy and evocative art of the comic books is going to be lost. Comics are just a different experience from film when we're talking about a lavishly illustrated graphic novel. Marvel can get away with it because tossing trucks at a speeding train looks great on film. But there was just something freakish and otherworldly about every frame of The Sandman. So when I see it looking rather banal like this... I worry.
^^^ Maybe so, but if the majority of the look is like the trailer, this could be great.
Also thinking that still doesn't have the final effects where some surreal etherealness may be added.
Sounds like something I would see on a can of.......something......
Which storyline did Watchmen leave out?
The HBO Watchmen series didn't leave anything out, it was created to tag onto the existing story.
If you are talking about the movie, they changed the giant squid to something else altogether.
Here’s what Chazro said:
“While I totally agree that Watchmen's the ONLY one (so far) that was done properly, the truth is that even it had to alter the ending and completely omit a major story line.”
I of course remember the changing of the ending from the giant squid, it’s the omission of a major storyline altogether that I can’t recall.
It's the whole "artists colony" story that involves the creation of the giant squid, amongst other elements. Paralleled by the Tales of the Black Freighter comic book.
I picked up The Sandman the month it was released and loved it despite some head scratching by my fellow comic book nerds. I already had some Gaiman/McKean books and I was viewing their names as a mark of quality.
It was often hard to get copies in the UK and I ended up buying some of the collected volumes.
There are some wonderful stories in there, and some great characters. No John Constatine in the cast list, though, despite him being a key character in an early story.
Looks good, but The Corinthian features very heavily despite not being part of the first story arc. He is quite essential to the second arc The Dolls House, and I don't want to see that story dramatically changed.
For the Netflix adaptation, Gaiman chose to use Johanna Constantine in place of John Constantine in the story. Johanna Constantine was a character Gaiman created in the Sandman comics, as John Constantine's ancestor, whom Dream meets in the 1700s.
From what I've read, Gaiman had several reasons for using Johanna in place of John for the Netflix show. He had an actress for the bit in the 1700s, and wanted to use her more in the show. It reduced having to cast separate actors for the Johanna and John roles. In the comics, he used John because readers were familiar with that character from the Hellblazer comics. But Netflix viewers may be new to John Constantine, so the difference between Johanna and John isn't critical. (Perhaps he also wanted distance from the John Constantine character, who was not Gaiman's creation and has already been presented on screen in movies like Constantine, played by Keanu Reeves.) He also wanted to have more female characters upfront for the Netflix show.
I'm sure changing John Constantine will anger some fans. Gaiman was on Marc Maron's WTF podcast this week. Enjoyable listen, in particular where he talks about how they cast for the show. He also talks about explaining to the actress playing Death how for the rest of her life, she will shoulder the burden or responsibility of fans going up to her (as they do with him) to tell stories of the death of their loved ones and how her character helped get them through that. He also talks about meeting a Superman fan, angry about John Byrne's relaunch of Superman in the 1980s, which gave him some sympathy about fans who get over-invested and angry about their favorite characters being changed. (Although Gaiman has been pretty vicious online towards fans complaining about his casting of Death and Desire for the Netflix series. He's pissed fans are lecturing him that he doesn't understand his own creation, in making the decisions he did for the show, when he himself has been battling "bad" Sandman projects for decades.)
I thought after posting my comment that John Constantine might be unavailable as an "intelectual property", since he has already featured in a movie of his own. Negotiating for his inclusion could well be a producers nightmare.
As to females, there are plenty of very strong female characters in the stories already.
Gaiman has said there are issues with him using the John Constantine character, but he claims they had decided to go with Johanna before he learned there could be issues. I don't know what those intellectual property issues may have been, or how they might have impacted the show. Gaiman has been in the middle of the legal battles over IP like Miracleman, and this isn't the first time attempts have been made at producing Sandman for the screen, so you decide how much Gaiman probably knew or didn't know about the rights behind using DC characters leading into the production of the Netflix show.
They also swapped genders in the show for Lucifer Morningstar (played by Gwendoline Christie from Game of Thrones) and Lucienne, Dream's librarian.
The biggest selling point of this Netflix production is that Gaiman was very much involved. As a fan of the comic book, I am hopeful this will be a show that satisfies what a fan of the comics will want to see. If not, no big deal to me: bad movie or TV adaptations haven't soured me on source material. Although bad adaptions mean if I ever tell someone who's not a comics fan that I love Sandman, they might say, "Yuk! You mean that awful movie?!?" And then I feel like I need to explain why the comics was so much better than what they know.
I’m really looking forward to this, I thought that this season was just the first story arc, but they included the Dolls House as well.
The show seems to be getting some decent reviews so far, so that’s positive.
I’ll start watching this weekend.
According to Christie, Neil Gaiman told her that Lucifer (and all angels) are genderless. So the publicity shots that state pronouns say Lucifer's are "they/them" - as are Desire's (but that is consistent with the original).
I'm going by memory, I havent read these stories for about 20 years - I sold off my comic book collection a long time ago.
I come to this with virtually no knowledge of the source stories. One ep in and it’s sumptuous. Meticulously produced. A classic in the making I reckon.
I love how brilliant, creative minds like Gaiman think about things.
I saw in a documentary a clip of Jack Nicholson talking about the Shining movie. He told an anecdote about discussing with Kubrick the horror of the story. Kubrick argued that the story was in fact an optimistic one: any story about ghosts suggests there is something after death, and that is an optimistic story. Nicholson was painting Kubrick as a clever guy.
Later, I saw Stephen King in an interview talking about the Shining movie. King said Kubrick was trying to convince him that the Shining was an optimistic story: any story about ghosts suggests there is something after death, and that is an optimistic story. King said he retorted, "Yeah, what about hell?" King was painting himself as a clever guy.
Much later, I saw that story re-told by another source. But it was added that Kubrick said back to King, "I don't believe in hell," and hung up the phone on King.
What's needed to turn a graphic narrative into a screenplay is always going to be a compromise for which diehard fans are going to have to stomach. If the original creator wants to get involved with a screen treatment of his work, he's going to be fighting two battles: one being to keep the character of his work from becoming the showrunner's vision, the other being having to assure his input hasn't been diminished to the fans.
These are not just two different mediums, but two different ways of telling the same story. You have to start with the reasons and artistic bases the artist was dealing with when he created the work, and translate those to the needs and motivations the studio might have to make his work a film - which are obviously going to be more surface than structure. The artist may have started with "I need a framework to illustrate the conflict between good and evil", but the director may be starting with, "I need a way to get a gremlin to throw a Buick into a building like on the comic book cover".
The budget for Sandman was reportedly $15 million per episode, which is about Game of Thrones, The Crown, Mandalorian and some extravagant Apple TV+ shows level expensive.
(Above that, you hit shows like Stranger Things, Disney+'s MCU shows and the upcoming Amazon Prime Lord of the Rings, which are really crazy expensive productions.)
More cash to Greenwich Univ for use of the Naval College and - I think - Painted Hall. Wot no Thor cameo?
I, too, am going in blind.....
can't wait to have the time to sit back and enjoy it!
It’s quite enjoyable although the gender switch for Constantine wasn’t necessary. Still, Jenna Coleman is marvelous.
I’m more disturbed by the pronunciation of the character’s name than I am by the gender swap.
Eh, it did bug me for a few minutes but I’m used to it now.
I would have loved to see the actor from Lucifer and from Constantine/Legends of Tomorrow play their roles in this but each of the actors in the role did a fine job in this.
Separate names with a comma.