Neil Young readies Pono music service for expansion Part 2

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Gary, Mar 11, 2014.

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  1. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I'm all in favor of hirez, but it seems me that about 90% of the popular recordings of the last 20 years have bad sound built into the mix and no amount of additional bits and quality hardware are going to make them sound decent.
     
    sunspot42 likes this.
  2. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Senior Member

    Location:
    Sheboygan, WI
    Pono Backwards is Oh Nop! (In computer science, a NOP (short for No Operation) is an assembly language instruction, sequence of computer programming language statements...just saying.

    Actually I give Neil a lot of credit and hope this changes things for the better. If he succeeds, it could have ramifications beyond just audio. Might inspire others to advance technologies that are stagnating due to vested interests. Mobile phone service anyone?
     
  3. Peter K

    Peter K Forum Resident

    I'm in for a Pono, and my reasoning is as follows:-

    1. Ayre are involved. Quite simply they are one of the top high end manufacturers. They deliver the goods.
    2. I have a huge vinyl collection and some wonderful recordings. I am now going to be able to convert them and hear them on my Pono in high res.
    3. I have DVD-As and they are bloody good. Listen to Gaucho in high res and I defy anybody not to hear the difference.
    4. Its a very reasonably priced piece of kit. The Astell and Kern is very expensive compared to it. And aside from the Fioio which really currrently is the only other portable high res competitor.
    5. Neil is on the right track.
    6. Even if the distribution channel fails I will still be able to load up other high res files from other sources.
     
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  4. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    On #6 -- once the devices are on people's hands and I hear some favorable reviews, I might also consider a purchase. As you stated, the device itself should work as a transport for high-res music, even if the Pono Store doesn't last long-term. Heck, I still use my Toshiba Gigabeat and it's long defunct - I can ever get extra parts for it off fleaBay or a new battery.

    On #3 -- is it the format or the mastering? Comparing it to CD isn't really a fair comparison if the masterings aren't the same, that's all a lot of us are saying. As for #2, you can do this on other hardware, that's independent of the Pono device of course.
     
  5. Peter K

    Peter K Forum Resident

    Re 3, nothing to do with mastering. I have Gaucho on CD and the difference is night and day.
     
  6. Peter K

    Peter K Forum Resident

    Re 6: Ayre, Ayre, Ayre are not not going to mess with their reputation!
     
    Metralla likes this.
  7. Benefactor

    Benefactor Forum Resident

    It becomes clearer why you are "in for a Pono".

    j/k
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  8. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    Were they mastered from the same source? If not, then imo it makes all the difference.

    I'd still want to hear reviews first, but my guess is that the device itself will likely sound quite good. I have other concerns like how the headphone out sounds over the line-out, what cans were tested, whether or not the battery is replaceable, how they deal with support overall on the device etc. Several unknowns here.
     
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  9. I thought it was something about Yoko ONO.
     
  10. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    That's all some of you ever say. It's become boring.
     
    darkmass likes this.
  11. Peter K

    Peter K Forum Resident

    Sorry but DVD-A can beat a CD on most occasions when I listen to the few I have. Take Crosby's if I could remember my name as an example!!!
     
  12. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    If it bores you so, feel free to put me on ignore.

    As for Peter K's continued comments, I don't have the CD /DVD-A to compare so all I'm doing is asking questions. Last time I checked it wasn't a problem on this forum to ask questions. If the DVD-A wasn't likely DRM-protected, I would suggest ripping it and downsampling it to a CDR, and doing a quick audible test -- that way the format itself becomes the main difference.

    Or not. It's up to you to decide, not me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  13. Snashforce

    Snashforce Living Stereo

    Location:
    NC

    I read the interview and found myself wondering about his answer to that question (especially the first part of his answer).
    As I understand it, the use of too much compression and limiting when mastering,
    well, that's the "loudness war" in a nutshell; taking a finished mix and then squashing the dynamics when mastering in order to get more average loudness.

    I record music and frequently use compressors on individual tracks in order to get a particular sound.
    But after the mix is finished I usually use little to no compression and limiting when mastering in order to avoid losing too much dynamic range.

    How can a recording artist as experienced as Neil Young think that compression and limiting is only used when recording and mixing and not during mastering?
    Am I mistaken in thinking that the loudness war is perpetuated by the overuse of compression and limiting during the mastering process?
     
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  14. PJJK

    PJJK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania - USA
    If most people are listening on iPhones, could the hi-res file and higher quality DAC make a large difference when combined?
     
  15. Metralla

    Metralla Joined Jan 13, 2002

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I don't do that. Don't take it personally.

    There is a trend here to attribute all differences that users hear when auditioning the same music on different media to "they are mastered differently". I know what our host does, and I know how important mastering is, but it does a disservice to striving for higher quality reproduction from higher resolution digital media to use the catch cry.
     
    darkmass likes this.
  16. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    That's fine, then you'll just have to continue to be bored with my posts then. EDIT: You re-edited. Understood but you were pointing your finger at me as if you were tired of my posts so thus my response. I don't put people on ignore either, at least not yet.

    And if you had read my posts, I didn't say that it was mastered differently -- I have no idea as I don't have them to compare, nor do I have the liner notes. I asked the other poster a question. If you wish to strive for higher quality reproduction, there's nothing wrong with that but that doesn't mean one cannot ask questions if someone is comparing formats.
     
  17. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    That makes sense to me. What baffles me is that Neil seems to think high-res 192kHz files automatically means good mastering. And there's always the possibility some idiot (whether it's a record executive or a well-intentioned mastering engineer) will slam the crap out of a 192kHz/24-bit transfer, or just use poor judgement. Good mastering is something apart from the release format, and I bet there'll be plenty of normal Red Book CDs that could actually sound better than a high-res file if the CD was very well-mastered.
     
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  18. cwsiggy

    cwsiggy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vero Beach, FL

    I'm on board for a player for reasons 1,2,4,5 and 6. #1,2 and 4 especially. I just think that the circuitry used in Pono *** at its price point*** makes it a very good deal compared to what's out there. Astell and Kern with their horrifically overpriced units should be very worried IMO ... I almost went with the FiiO x5 but I've decided to go with this one for the cool artist model and Ayre implementation. I do think they should have focused more on how bad MP3 is rather than how great Hi-Rez is if that makes sense.... I'm not sure the Eco system they are trying to create will do that well... We'll see. If not, for me it doesn't matter as the bulk of my portable music is from my vinyl rips.

    It's just another fun piece of kit and will evolve....
     
    pablorkcz likes this.
  19. Will there be an Abba artist version ? :tiphat:
     
  20. Steve Martin

    Steve Martin Wild & Crazy Guy

    Location:
    Plano, TX
    I thought the same thing, but they are actually the same in their chart. It is an optical illusion that the CD lossless quality looks higher because of the 3D perspective of the chart. Not to say they didn't do it that way to make "CD lossless quality" look higher as that is one of the format that they will be selling.

    A lot of people seem to be forgetting that they will be selling normal CD quality. They say they will sell the best "available" and for a lot of stuff out there, that will be it. I expect a very HDTracks-like store.
     
  21. Thurenity

    Thurenity Listening to some tunes

    I actually grabbed the image, zoomed into that area and rotated it just to be certain -- the white bar is actually slightly higher, believe it or not (I thought it was an illusion at first too). Regardless, as you said, perhaps it may have been done purposely and I'm wondering if it's because they expect at least some items in their store will be 16/44.1k because that's the only format the label will give them.

    As I hear more and more, I'm also guessing that it will be very much like an HDTracks store.
     
  22. tomd

    tomd Senior Member

    Location:
    Brighton,Colorado
    You got that right :sigh:
     
  23. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    I am expecting the only difference will be the NY catalog, which will be a PONO-exclusive.

    Even that may be slow to come.
     
    Thurenity likes this.
  24. davidbix

    davidbix Forum Resident

    Hmm? Thriller on HDTracks is the SACD, which has a high DR and sounds great: http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/56861
     
  25. jack static

    jack static Forum Resident

    Location:
    southwest canada
    I wish Neil had a chance to work with Lou Reed on this - with Lou's audiophile tendencies (didn't he do a headphone ad posthumously?) and his entire catalog being recently remastered, it seems like it would have been a good match.
     
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