NEVER ship eBay goods without tracking!!

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Ghostworld, May 24, 2010.

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  1. ATSMUSIC

    ATSMUSIC Senior Member

    Location:
    MD, USA
    LP Fan and FranzD I am looking at you.

    Off topic but yes you should never falsely accuse anyone of anything. Always give someone the benefit of the doubt. There are a couple in this thread who should do the same.
     
  2. leshafunk

    leshafunk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    We can put it like that: US sellers cannot provide tracking on international sales at reasonable cost :thumbsdn: That's life...
     
  3. Jae

    Jae Senior Member

    Erm, one page ago you stated "Exactly why I never ship overseas on Ebay. I do here though because I believe the chances of getting ripped of are much less". In other words, if there is a problem, you've already assumed that it's your overseas buyers trying to rip you off, so to mitigate getting "ripped off" you stop sending overseas, full stop.

    And that's giving people the benefit of the doubt?

    Hypocrisy? :rolleyes:
     
  4. Jae

    Jae Senior Member

    Fully concur. Great rational position to take. :righton:

    I know on a few ocassions as a seller I've taken the hit and paid for overseas tracking "just to be sure". The cost is a small price to pay for peace of mind if the item is over AU$100 (wouldn't really bother otherwise). Besides, most of my biggest sales have gone overseas (Italy and UK in the main).

    If I see an item from a US seller that lists the US$32 for Express Post to Australia, if I really want the item, I will message them and ask if they will send via standard airmail, and I will agree to take on the risk for doing so. Never been a problem, never had an item go missing (well, once, because the US seller failed to address the package, LOL, but that's hardly my cause). But I don't do this often because, as you allude to, it's generally much easier just to find someone else selling the same item without all the "hassle".
     
  5. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    If you mean countries with less than satisfactory postal services then in Europe I would say: France, Italy, Greece, (Netherlands I know some will argue with that and it's only some areas), Russia and all the former Eastern Bloc countries.

    The following all have generally excellent postal services: UK, Ireland, Germany, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Norway, Finland, Austria, Belgium and outside Europe, Japan, the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Korea are generally problem free, beyond that I have limited experience.

    You also have to take into account the buyer's feedback, someone with thousands of positives for expensive items is almost certainly a minimal risk whereas someone who joined last week and is buying a $200 record rings alarm bells., likewise why worry about signed for delivery on a $5 CD.
     
  6. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    And thats the rub of it really. If you list all your eBay items as registered post/tracked only, then you will sell less. Most people pick the cheapest shipping option - I do!
     
  7. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    And unless I REALLY want the item and they won't send to me First Class International, like LP fan I'll be voting with my feet and looking elsewhere for cheaper shipping options.
     
  8. imarcq

    imarcq Men are from Mars, I'm from Bromley...

    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
  9. leshafunk

    leshafunk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    This service is mostly to bypass country limitations of online shops like Amazon etc. (e.g. Amazon does not sell electronics outside US, Levi's jeans are restricted to sell outside US etc.).
    I know many people in Russia use similar services to buy goods in States from sellers who do not sell internationally or ship only via express mail (it kills the bargain, you know). But these 'forwarders' usually do not provide any risk coverage - all the risks go to buyers .
     
  10. gabacabriel

    gabacabriel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I live in the UK. As long as I get proof of posting, the Royal Mail will cover me for losses up to GBP39 (does the US mail not do this at all?).

    So, as a simple rule of thumb, when I sell an item on eBay and it is going overseas, if the item is over GBP50 (US75), then I'll send it tracked...if it's under, then I send it as normal airmail.

    It isn't worth adding tracking before GBP50, because up to that point the added costs of the insurance outweigh the piece of mind.
     
  11. Nonhuman

    Nonhuman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Waverly, NY, USA
    The customer is entitled to whatever postal services they paid for and nothing more. Nothing exists outside of a written contract. I've always made insurance and tracking required services for my international sales of expensive products, or I've included them as complimentary and absorbed the cost in the selling price.

    I no longer accept paypal for any expensive sales because paypal appears to assume no obligation to review and act according to contract law terms as written in the listings. This undermines the legal interest of the seller, and exposes the seller to opportunistic fraudlulent practices by buyers. It is seller responsibility to expect these fraudulent behaviours and if they voluntarily avoid the protection of tracking services etc, then they are playing the odds and assuming those odds. Anyone that has experience with the US postal system tracking/insurance/custom system will know firsthand that these services are not as comprehensive as they are claimed to be, and in many ways don't exist in performance at all.

    I once sold a copy of "CSN Allies CD" to a buyer in Spain and I included tracking/insurance as a conditional complimentary service. The buyer claimed he never received the item, the post office tracking system revealed only that the item was received at the window of my local post office. They were unable to provide any documentation that the item was received at customs. I dilligently scanned all documents and reports as provided by the US postal service and fax forwarded them to the buyer in Spain.

    This so-called investigation by the US postal service went on for a series of months. During which time the buyer maintained his position that he had not received the item. He requested a refund directly from me to his paypal account which I declined. The insurance/tracking services were complimentary and conditionally voidable upon my receipt of negative feedback. Therefore the seller continued to wait for the US postal processing of the refund although he made continuing requests for a direct refund into his paypal account.

    The US postal service having failed to produce any tracking information beyond receipt of the item at the local postal office window, agreed to pay the insured amount which included the cost of insurance. I could have collected the amount directly from the US Postal service but I insisted to authorize the total refund to be paid collectible by the buyer at his local post office. I scanned and faxed the documentation to the seller.

    Lo and behold the seller never collected the refund from his local post office. He was authorized to collect significantly more than what he paid for the item because I had paid the insurance/tracking cost out of my own pocket. The selling price alone was $120 US. And yet he never collected it. I can only speculate at what "fear" might have prevented him from claiming the refund. My option to have the refund paid directly to the buyer avoided any implication that I might be an active party to any fraudulent claim of lost insured product.

    It is my suspicion that this buyer was perpetrating a fraudulent claim and chose not to risk being questioned at his local post office. As a consequence I no longer do any international sales. This is due to the failure of the US postal service to provide reasonable value for the high cost of insurance/tracking services. In hindsight I recognize that paypal could have acted erroneously and interfered by issuing a refund directly to the buyer's paypal account if the buyer had requested it. It is suspicious that the buyer never requested it although the US postal investigation went on for months. In any event, if paypal had issued a direct refund to the buyer, I would have been compensated by the US Postal insurance refund. Given the terrible performance and high cost of the US postal service despite the information technology available to them, I will continue to avoid international sales.
     
  12. ress4279

    ress4279 Senior Member

    Location:
    PA
    I just got burned on a shipment to Russia. If I insisted that the winner use this service, would the risk have been off me 100%?
     
  13. marantzbe

    marantzbe Hyperactive!

    Location:
    BELGIUM
    Same here,
    In 10 years, only 2 issues.
    One solved, and one never.
     
  14. zen archer

    zen archer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston Ma.usa
    Last Christmas I sold a 2 DVD set on Amazon and I always use a tracking number and once i send the item I send the buyer the tracking number.

    So anyway this girl emails me 2 weeks after I sent the DVD and wants to know where the DVD is, it's a gift she tells me and now she has to buy another one and time is running out.

    I send her the Tracking number (for the second time)which showed that the package was delivered to her address and a day later she writes to Thank me ????....whatever :sigh:
     
  15. leshafunk

    leshafunk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Moscow, Russia
    Good question. You'll be responsible only for inside-US shipping in such case, but one more party gets involved, and the more parties - the more complicated the case may be if the item is lost; 'cos the actual carrier shall be still USPS and Russian Post, with all their flaws.
     
  16. R. Totale

    R. Totale The Voice of Reason

    While it's true that Paypal Seller Protection is only available if you jump through their hoops, that's not the only protection available. Third party shipping services like U-pic and Shipinsure will insure your overseas packages, even sent by First Class, for about a buck per $100. When I'm in the OP's shoes, I spend the buck (and no, I don't try to charge the buyer for it, that would be gauche). I've shipped packages all over the world every week for over 20 years and have never lost one, so I can't say how tough it would be to collect. But I've never relied =at all= on Paypal protection for anything going outside the US - I protect myself, or take the risk.
     
  17. gedsmit

    gedsmit Fair Weather Member

    I've just been stung for £50 by Paypal - sold a DCC Metallica on ebay to someone in Russia, and it didn't make it, according to the buyer. I've certainly learnt my lesson now regarding tracking.

    A question for any UK sellers... Royal Mail seems to offer an Internation signed for option, but doesn't track the item once it gets past the channel! ParcelForce seems quite expensive. Are there any good, inexpensive alternatives out there for if I sell overseas? Chances are however that paypal would still side with the buyer whatever I choose!

    Maybe next time I'll sell on the forum. I do like the buzz of watching my items on ebay though!!
     
  18. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Yup: Never ship without tracking. That will take care of it for eBay, at least for domestic (US) sales.

    Amazon: That's another matter entirely. I had a CD box set I sold to someone in San Francisco. Shipped with tracking. Tracking showed the item was delivered. Buyer said he never got it. It didn't make me happy to eat a $60 loss, but I talked to Amazon and they told me that either take care of it on my own, or they would refund the buyer (out of my account) as "customer service"--which goes as a black mark on your account, and is something you want to avoid. Since the buyer said they didn't want a replacement shipment, I have always assumed it was a scam. But that's how it rolls.
     
  19. Tracking is of no use with Amazon Marketplace apparently so why pay for it? Stories like this are too common on eBay and Amazon.com. I never rip anybody off but get ripped off as buyer or seller once in a while and although I continue to sell on eBay some, I always try to find another method first. I feel certain you were scammed, either accidentally by an irresponsible buyer or deliberately.
     
  20. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    I feel like hugging all of my honest international buyers and sellers over these last 5 - 10 years after this thread.

    The mentioned reasons are exactly why I've only sold on eBay 3 times over the last 10 years. Not exactly a profitable venture selling $10 - $50 CD's with a $20 shipping cost to get the tracking number required to save your butt if a not received Paypal claim is filed.
     
    pdenny likes this.
  21. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    I say never ship without tracking and also insurance. I sold a mono Dylan box set to a forum member at the begining of the year and USPS lost it. I had to eat the cost.
     
  22. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    Ouch, sorry to hear Todd. :shh: Anything over $15 and I insist on insurance.
     
  23. Todd Fredericks

    Todd Fredericks Senior Member

    Location:
    A New Yorker
    Over $15 makes perfect sense Dave! It stung a lot when it happened and for a couple months trying to work with USPS (useless) but I had to let it go. Life is too short and lesson learned.
     
  24. rhkwon

    rhkwon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX USA
    To track or not to track? It depends. I've had a few international transactions go awry, and all of them involved sending the item with no tracking.

    The dilemma a seller has is "do I want to pay the extra cost to ship with a tracking number or do I want to save some money and not have tracking"? Well, human nature tells us that we would like to save and pocket the extra money by not paying for tracking.

    You can also look at it from a statistical point of view. Most items will be delivered without a problem and the money you saved by not paying extra for tracking goes into your "savings by not paying for tracking" pool. And then there will be the one time that there is a problem and if you don't refund back to the customer personally, Paypal will make sure you do by debiting or freezing your account. So the savings you had gets thrown away on the one problem shipment.

    I think it's best to have tracking on large ticket items and take your chances on the smaller ones.

    Or you can solve the problem completely by having the buyer pay for the total shipping including tracking. And purchasing insurance is always recommended on bigger items.
     
  25. crispynz1

    crispynz1 Forum Resident

    I'm lucky, New Zealand Post postage rates include up to NZ$250 cover. Only downside is you have to declare actual value, which can piss buyers off that have to pay duty. Not tracked either.
     
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