New Bookshelf Speakers With Serious Buzz......

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Oct 6, 2018.

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  1. SirMarc

    SirMarc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cranford, NJ
    They're very pretty in the rosewood finish, much better looking than the Bouchardts in my opinion. Sound? Who knows, I haven't heard either ...
     
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  2. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    I haven’t heard the Sierra-1 or the Buchardts, but I own the Sierra-2 in the piano black finish. They are remarkable speakers. The RAAL tweeter is awesome, and Dave (the owner and speaker designer) is a great guy and very responsive to emails and phone calls.

    With the grilles off I prefer the looks of the Buchardt speakers, but I always leave grilles on and the 2 separate circular grilles on the Buchardts look funny to me. So I guess I prefer the looks of the Sierras as well!
     
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  3. AudioMike33

    AudioMike33 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Usa
    The cabinet is made in China under a very high ISO Factory and then rest of it is assembled in Denmark.

    I've seriously consider the s300 there's not a bad review on them and I think they Rock I think they're very good speakers just because people haven't heard of them because they're in Europe doesn't mean they're not any good.

    10-year warranty 45-day return. They pay the shipping sounds tough to beat I almost pulled the trigger on these but I ended up going with some elac speakers just to keep it simple for now.

    Love to hear some feedback from people that actually own them.
     
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  4. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    Good to know, thanks.
     
  5. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Me too!

    What's the buzz, tell me what's happening, what's the buzz...

    I did not really see a difference in where they are put together?

    It seems that most speaker's seem to be made in China, nothing new and exciting here.

    Clever aren't they? I look at those and I'm scratching my head about the 33-Hz. figure from those little boxes? What gives?

    I have the Polk flagship LSiM707's, which are large tower speaker's, weighing 99-lbs. each, with dual deep bass drivers and their -3 dB point is 38-dB.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a screen shot from the Polk web site. When you read the technical specifications of the LSiM707.

    Note, that under "AUDIO QUALITY" the first thing that you see listed is a Total Frequency Response of 20 Hz - 40,000 Hz.

    WOW! Very impressive!

    Of course, when you look a bit further down the page, you read, Upper and Lower -3 dB limits 28 Hz - 30,000 Hz (at least, they DO publish them!).

    [​IMG]

    Get away from Polk's "audiophile" speaker's and look at one of their small consumer market bookshelf model's, their S20.
    [​IMG]
    You find the published frequency response, listed simply as a Total Frequency Response of 39 Hz - 40000 Hz, which is very impressive indeed, for a $299 pair of consumer level bookshelf speakers.

    Omitted are any reference to a -3 dB point.


    [​IMG]

    Now, if you check out this link to the Sierra ascend II bookshelf speakers, which are mentioned earlier in this thread, you find, that their
    Typical In-Room Frequency Response 41Hz - 27kHz ± 3dB.

    Personally, I think that at the end of the day, I would prefer to buy from a manufacturer who is upfront and provides honest specifications.

    Which happen to be more impressive than the bogus specs are.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. ZenMango

    ZenMango Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    The S400’s arrived mid December. I’m out of town and will provide a more detailed response when I return this weekend.
    But let’s just say I’m keeping them! I’m very impressed with these Buchardts. Stay tuned....
     
  7. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    The Sierras are probably a decent speaker but we have to remember that speakers are much, much more than good woofer and tweeter drivers assembled to a well finished box. The magic, the art and the overall sound are in the crossover and crossover tuning process that the designer has chosen as the "voice" of his speaker. The tuning is what separates amazing speakers from intolerable speakers.
    Joseph Audio is able to sell his Pulsar speakers that use ~ $800 worth of Seas woofers and tweeters for $7700 because his ability to design crossovers, carefully adjust the voicing and tuning to absolute perfection are legendary in the industry. It is not easy, it truly requires golden ears and a knowledge of how to design circuits that blend the drivers coherently, hide their faults and consider the enclosure and room in their ultimate presentation.
    The Buchardt speakers are designed and painstakingly tuned by a former lead designer at Dynaudio, who wanted to break out on his own and make speakers that didn't fit the Dynaudio corporate marketing template. It is the reason that I would trust investing in them sound unheard.
     
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  8. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    First, you do need to start out with nice driver's, like Seas of Norway (which, B.T.W., Sierra's use them).

    I don't think there is all that much new in engineering that goes into designing a "shoe box", been done before.

    Mystical properties of speaker wire some how manage to escape me.

    Which leaves one little component, the "crossover".

    Design an excellent crossover and you will have designed a nice speaker.

    What sets my A7's apart from every pair of A7's is the crossover's.

    People pay attention to wires and everything else that really is not that important and virtually ignore the crossover's.
     
  9. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    I don’t doubt that the Buchardts are fantastic speakers. I would love to hear a pair myself. I’m aware of their engineering background and ties to Dynaudio. I was merely suggesting a US-based company that I see as comparable and seems to share key values and ideals about the audio industry.

    I don’t think Dave from Ascend Acoustics would disagree with anything you said. I don’t either. Well, except suggesting that the Sierra is just a “decent speaker” with “good woofer and tweeter drivers.” I don’t think that is a fair characterization.

    His drivers have all been custom-tuned for Ascend’s specific needs by SEAS and RAAL, and he designed the crossovers. He definitely did not just throw a couple off-the-shelf drivers in a box and call it a day. Heck, even the bamboo “box” had a ton of R&D behind it. He has his own MLSSA gear and does extensive tests throughout the development process.

    Dave has a long background in the audio industry. If you care to read the insanely long Sierra-2 development thread on the Ascend forum (or talk to Dave directly - he’s a super nice guy) you’ll see that the process he went through for developing the Sierra-2 (and the entire Sierra line, for that matter) was nothing short of painstaking. They do have a following for a reason...

    These are the reasons I invested in the Sierra-2 sound unheard. I would also feel pretty comfortable doing the same with the Buchardt S400s, although the misleading frequency response spec is a bit of a red flag to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  10. AudioMike33

    AudioMike33 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Usa

    But they offer a 45-day return. Where they pay for the shipping to your house and they pay for the shipping dock if you don't like it you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    At some point I'll be ordering these speakers to try them.
     
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  11. ZenMango

    ZenMango Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Here’s where I’m at so far- I’ve been listening to the S400’s for +/- 2 weeks. I feel they are still breaking in. This impression is confirmed by other reviews I’ve seen. So be forewarned these speakers require a long break in period.
    Must note that What I value the most in speakers is an engaging midrange and seamless transition between drivers, i.e. specially sensitive to crossover anomalies (these are two strengths of my reference speakers- Apogee Stage ribbons).
    I ordered the speakers early October, so there were delays. Mads Buchardt pretty much admitted they were not expecting such demand. I will say Mads responded to all my emails within hours and kept me updated on my order status.
    So what are my early impressions?
    I got the black finish. Workmanship is top notch. Silky Smooth to the touch and corners are nicely rounded. The S400’s present a 4 ohm load and are 88db efficient. Both my Van Alstine Fet Valve 400 tube/fet hybrid (200w) and Margules all tube class A (60wpp/30w in triode) amps we’re able to drive them to pretty high, distortion free levels. The waveguide and woofer are perfectly integrated. This is very impressive. The speakers are very coherent and balanced across the frequency range. I’d say they are slightly on the warm side of neutral...and I mean this in a good way. The bass on these sounds tight and musical. Amazing, really, for such a small standmounter. The s400’s played music and kept me emotionally engaged on just about everything I’ve played— Saint Saenz Symphony #3, Shostakovich, Bach Cello concertos (satisfying reproduction of cello strings and wood resonances), the blat of Armstrong’s trumpet and clink of Monk’s piano. Electric guitars sound nasty or beautiful as needed, and snare whacks and cymbal shimmers are shake-your-head good. Well recorded vocals sound beautiful and btw, these s400’s throw a wide and deep image just beyond the speaker edges.
    The speakers are placed 4ft into the room. I listen mostly nearfield, but one thing I noticed is they project sound very well and sound excellent off-axis. I have the s400’s on Pangea LS300 stands. The passive radiator in the back should facilitate placement closer to rear wall.
    My intent was to use these in the living area with an AV receiver for digital and TV. That will happen, but now these will find their way back to my reference system and substitute for the Apogees occasionally. I’m extremely happy with the s400’s. They are a serious high end speaker at a great price.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
  12. F1nut

    F1nut Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Mars Hotel
    I see they now list the black version as being back in stock come March.
     
  13. The Pinhead

    The Pinhead KING OF BOOM AND SIZZLE IN HELL

    No way ! That's over double the weight of my floorstanders !!!:yikes: What makes them so heavy ? Well; they'd better be at 2K each !!
     
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  14. ZenMango

    ZenMango Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    You have to be patient with Buchardt. In my opinion they’re worth the wait if you’re in the market for a great standmounter under $2k
     
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  15. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    These things are huge, they are the largest and most expensive speaker's that Polk makes.

    [​IMG]

    They are 51" tall and they are 18 1/2" deep. They are big (This is the old TV).

    The large center channel for the LSiM series is almost 29" wide and weighs just over 42-lbs! It was two inches to high to fit, so I was using my old center. Below is the LSiM series center channel speaker.

    [​IMG]

    With the new 4K set, I was able to move the processor directly under the TV and get the center channel speaker back centered, where it belongs. The center channel speaker is not the one that goes with the 707's, it is the one that I used with the Polk RTiA9's. The one that goes with the LSiM series was too large to fit on the shelf below the TV.

    BTW... Even though the LSiM707's are $4k/pr. I bought them and their $1,200 center channel speaker during a Polk half price sale, a few years back.

    These are really some excellent speakers for a grand each!

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Excellent review. :agree:

    How would you say the Buchardts compare to other $2K-ish standmount speakers you've heard? Would you say we might have a new champion in this space?

    And is there anything at all that you didn't like about 'em, other than the long wait to get 'em, and maybe the break-in time?
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  17. AudioMike33

    AudioMike33 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Usa


    Don't know if you guys saw this review on the s-300 sounds very like a very interesting speaker.
     
  18. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Thanks for this - I like seeing some new speakers (to me anyway) get mentioned - look to be fairly easy to drive and I like that they can be placed against the walls. This really helps here in Hong Kong - and attractively priced. I twice nearly purchased Dynaudio speakers in the late 1990s. Under $2k is also nice.
     
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  19. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Looking at the S400, under the technical specifications, it does show that their low frequency response is 33-Hz. at the -3 dB point.

    [​IMG]
    This does seem awfully low, as most decent normal bookshelf speaker's are going to be around 50-Hz. at their -3 dB point. The Sierra Ascend's Typical In-Room Frequency Response is listed as being 41Hz - 27kHz ± 3dB, with average tower speaker's being in the area of 40-Hz.

    One thing that I do take into consideration is not only the retail pricing, but often what is available on sale or at closeout pricing.

    While they won't fit on your bookshelf or on floor stands, another member posted that a holiday sale by Adorama in N.Y. is offering Polk's flagship LSiM707 speaker's, and other's in the LSiM product line, which I have previously mentioned in an example above, are on sale for 60% off, or there abouts.

    This was a post by @riverrat yesterday.

    Polk LSiM speakers 58% - 67% off..

    This makes the 99-lb (each) Polk flagship tower's only $800/each or $1,600 for the pair, while the sale is still going on. Just something to consider as the "best" speaker buy in the $2,000 US price range.
     
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  20. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    @ZenMango any chance of a photo of your s400's with the grills on ?
     
  21. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    Interesting. They must have added the +/-3dB point recently because it’s absence was the main reason I emailed them.

    I wonder why the graph below the specs doesn’t reflect a -3dB point at 33Hz though?

    s400 detailed description — Buchardt Audio

    Edit: the S300 MKII frequency response says 33 - 30Hz +/-3dB (in room).

    That still doesn’t explain why the -3dB point on their graph looks more like ~47 or 48Hz though. 15Hz seems like a lot of added bass response from room placement.

    Maybe that passive radiator helps deepen “in-room” bass response more than a port can?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  22. ZenMango

    ZenMango Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks. I can’t say I did a lot of comparisons, although I’ve been in this hobby a looong time, and have listened to many stand mounts. I don’t churn equipment often, and do a ton of research before purchases and look for equipment that is consistent with my biases and reading reviewers that are sympathetic to my preferences.
    Complaints? So far the S400’s have done nothing to offend me. I listen longer than planned every time. They hold my attention. Maybe a tad more dynamics? deeper bass? I see in this thread concerns about the claimed 33 hz. I’m not sure and honestly don’t care. I will say during some pipe organ passages, the sound flipped over an LP cover on the floor :cool: Then again we’re talking about a 14 inch stand mount here. They do need good solid stands, 28 inches high. They sound best to me aimed straight ahead with no toe-in. I’m using them 4’ into the room so have not tried closer to the wall and this may affect performance.
    Finally the low risk of Buchardt offering a long home trial sealed the deal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  23. ZenMango

    ZenMango Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Sure
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Grateful Ed

    Grateful Ed Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vermont
    Regardless of my skepticism about the stated frequency response, I’m glad to see more audio companies taking the direct to consumer approach.

    I’m excited to see what Buchardt continues to put out (especially the actives)!

    I’m also glad to see some folks here getting their hands on the S400s and putting some reviews out there.
     
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  25. bever70

    bever70 Let No-one Live Rent Free in Your Head!

    Location:
    Belgium
    Thanks. Looking good! I like the seperate grill design...leaves you with an option to play and change the look of them from time to time, leaving the tweeter naked & covering the woofer for example.
     
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