New Integrated Amp Suggestion?

Hoping for input if the Yamaha AS-801 will provide enough power to drive my setup before I purchase it or if anyone has a better suggested integrated amplifier? My setup: Fluance Signature Series floorstanding speakers, Fluance 12" Subwoofer (DB12), Audio-Technica LPW40WN turntable, Samsung QLED60 65", and a DVD player. I currently have an old Pioneer Stereo Amplifier SA-1270. The issue I'm currently having is I have to turn the volume up significantly for the speakers (setup on receiver Speakers A) when the subwoofer setup on receiver Speaker B is on so I'm thinking my current receiver doesn't have enough power? Additionally, the receiver doesn't have a subwoofer output so I have the Fluance Subwoofer attached to the receiver speaker terminal. Hoping a new integrated amplifier will fix this issue.

 

The input impedance of a powered subwoofer is so high that an amp or receiver won't even know it's there. It's odd that you seem to having problem when using your sub.

FYI, the high (speaker) level is the best way to connect a sub.

 

The Yamaha A-S801 should have enough power for all that. The good thing about Yamaha is that it always has a little more real power than declared. I had an A-S701 a long time ago and there was never a lack of power in anything.

 

Seems like the 801 is a default recommendation. Thinking the speakers aren’t too exotic or low impedance …?

The only way you’ll really know of course is to try one. I see Crutchfield has an open box unit but it’s only $50 off. But they generally have a good return policy. So if you don’t like it …

I also do not understand why the Pioneer has issues when the sub is connected, it shouldn’t even notice, as others have said. Maybe it’s ailing.

 

I used to own 801, it has a great dac and very very poor phono stage. Get ready to buy a seperate phono stage as well. And it will make a world of difference.

 

Remember that the sub out on the A-S801 is fixed at 80hz or something like that. Just FYI.

 

Well, you are right at the verge. Your speakers r asking between 90 and 200 watts to 8 ohms. And yammy is offering 100 watts per channel at 8 ohms. And it has a sub out, that should work fine with ur setup.

 

agreed. The digital and line level inputs are good but the phono stage lacks…and can be bettered with little outlay.

If vinyl is secondary to you, forget about it and get the 801. If it’s primary, add in the $200-500 to match the digital inputs.

@wrsoftball3 no idea where you are but if you’re anywhere near Annapolis, md by chance, you’re welcome to try my 801 at home

 

Hi - I don't know those speakers (I do own a A-S 801 though)

A quick Google came up with a Audioholics review that included their independent measurements. Right out in the introduction they list "Easy electrical load for any amplifier" as one of the speakers "pros". Scrolling through to their measurements they estimate sensitivity around 88dB/1w/1m and a minimum impedance of 5.7 Ohms.

Based on that I see no reason the Yamaha wouldn't be capable of driving those speakers with ease?

 

Sounds like the speakers should be driven very well and comfortably by the 801, and indeed by the Pioneer receiver as well.

The sub seems to be self powered, which brings up the possibility that the sub is defective. The volume on the receiver should NOT have to be adjusted for the main speakers when the sub is engaged, even tho it’s being driven by the B speaker output …

UNLESS the speaker inputs on the sub BYPASS its internal amp …? I’ve never seen that behavior in a powered sub though.

Seems maybe the internal amp in the sub is ailing in some way.

PS/Edit: A quick glance at the sub user manual didn’t uncover anything to contradict what I and others have said.

Are you sure you’re connecting speaker B output to the high level INPUT connections? The sub does have “pass through” connections, I donno what would happen if the outputs were used as inputs. Maybe this is the problem.

 

I started my hi-fi journey with an A-S801, it's an excellent and very capable integrated amp.

The phono stage of the A-S801 is loaded with 470pf of capacitance. That is rather high and does not play well with a lot of cartridges, especially Audio Technica's that recommend 100-200pf. That being said, I agree that a decent dedicated phono stage will spank most built-in stages.

 

I was just looking at the A-S801 manual. Looking at the specs it shows a "SUBWOOFER OUT (Cut Off Frequency: 100 Hz)". I wonder if one could still tweak the signal with the crossover setting on the sub itself.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/1/1412681/web_VEX7500_A-S801_om_U_EnFr_A0.pdf

I have a Yamaha A-S1000 and I'm quite happy with it.

 

I started my hifi journey with 801 as well.

 

I would think so, just set the crossover on your sub lower. The one thing I didn't realize is if you're using a sub with the sub out feature, the signal to the main speakers are still full range, nothing is rolled off.

 

If by "tweak" you mean crossover at a lower frequency than 100 Hz, then yes. The dedicated sub out on the 801 just won't let your sub have anything above 100 Hz.
You could get around this by using speaker level connections and send the full range to a sub if the sub has those connectors.
Even when I was using my 801 with smaller stand mount speakers I never crossed the sub over any higher than 50-55 Hz. 100+ Hz coming out of a sub sounds like mud, imo.

 

I agree Rick, my guess is the Pioneer is just a bit old and tired... sounds a bit like me actually
According to everyone's good mate Google that model was produced between 1982 and 1985.

Either that or there are defects elsewhere as you and others have surmised?

 

Can you clarify this?
- Disconnect the subwoofer entirely from Speaker B. Play the speakers loud, note the position of the volume control, maybe even play like a brown noise track and use an SPL app on a phone.
- Even better would be like a 300 Hz tone and measure the output voltage with a multimeter.
- Turn off, connect the sub again, repeat.
The volume is really lower with the sub connected?
Your Pioneer appears to have pre-out/main-in jacks. Get something like a pair of these https://www.amazon.com/FosPower-Y-Adapter-Splitter-Digital-Subwoofer/dp/B01LQVWG9E and plug the single end into the pre-out jack, then one side of the Y- into the main-in jacks. The remaining male, to an RCA cable out to the sub. If all works, DONE, no need for a new receiver, though a new one *might* sound better (but probably won't play louder as the old one is rated at 105W/8 ohms).

As for connecting the sub, I prefer low level with a highpass filter. If you can blast the speakers to maximum and they don't distort then high level works-but if the speakers DO distort, it is silly to not relieve their strain.
- Just because something has a "subwoofer output" does NOT mean there is any kind of highpass filtering to cut the bass from the main speakers. Someone had once posted that in certain Yamahas you had to do this through YPAO-but it may not be available on the more expensive ones, just as I guess the variable loudness disappears as you go up in price?
- The 801 is rated at 100W into 8 ohms, no continuous power spec into 4 ohms though there is a dynamic rating. About as powerful as any other AVR or integrated. You'd need to step up to like something rated 300+ watts continous into 4 ohms to start getting more power. Remember that twice the power is only 3 dB, like one volume knob step.

 

The problem with the built-in phono stage in these mid-level Yamahas isn’t necessarily their capacitance. It’s that they make any cartridge sound dull and rolled-off, regardless of cartridge spec.

The higher-end amps do not do this with MM cartridges despite (allegedly) having similar capacitance specs.

 

Maybe consider some separates Pre and Power if budget affords. Beef up the power available and never look back. Parasound, Emotiva and others.

 

Thanks for all the comments. To elaborate on my volume issue if anyone has any other thoughts...Speakers are wired to receiver terminal A and subwoofer is wired from the subwoofer high level (both right and left - so i have 2 sets speaker wire coming from the sub running to the receiver) to receiver terminal B. On the receiver, if I have only Speaker A (speakers) on and Speaker B off (sub), the volume on the receiver is at 2 bars. However, once I turn on Speaker B (sub) I have to turn the volume on the receiver up to 5 bars. Essentially all the way up to hear it at normal level. The subwoofer is brand new so I would hope their is no issue with it. The subwoofers volume is set pretty low. I would post pictures of how all is connected, but not sure how to do that on this forum.

 

So the back does not look like this?
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WYMAAOSw51xe-lze/s-l640.jpg

 

Yes, it looks like the bottom receiver, but I do not have the top piece that's sitting on top of the bottom receiver.

 

Rega Elex-R. For about 1,000 used you won't find a better sounding amp

 

Then just have the sub tap off Speaker A terminals. It won’t blow the amp. I have the RN803, I have used Speaker A terminals for the LR speakers and Speaker B terminals for a sub. No issues. Did that to hear the difference between sub on and off, whilst sitting on the couch.