New Power Cable seems to make the bass really boomy. Does it need break-in, or does it just suck?

latheofheaven · Aug 9, 2022

Okay, firstly I'm not a BIG fan of Power Cables, etc. However, I did notice as I had mentioned in a thread a ways back that plugging my Crown 2502 into a different outlet (by way of a power strip, believe it or not...) than my Ayon Orion II integrated Tube Amp without really thinking about it or planning on it, did indeed sound better.

But, as I mention here above, the stock PC is not long enough to reach the other outlet (adjacent wall to where my Ayon is plugged in) so, I had to use the rather Cheeeeezy Monster (I know... ) power strip to reach it. I had an opportunity recently to purchase what looked like a nice heavy duty PC on HiFiShark or some such from this guy who is an engineer. It is this one:

Valiant | Underwood HiFi

It was brand new from the fellow who says he designed them originally and this was a sample he had lying around. As you can see on the site they go for about $350, but he was selling his new for $99, so I thought, why not, at least it would eliminate the Monster power strip...

Well, it IS long enough to reach the other outlet, so that was nice. BUT... in listening, it SEEMS like the low end (The Crown only drives the 2-15" dipole open baffle woofers bridged with both woofers wired parallel @ 4 ohms crossed over @125) sound rather boomy.

So, since I am a COMPLETE virgin (uh... to Power Cords...) I have NO bloody idea if the cable simply sucks, or if it needs 'break-in' time or what. But, my immediate impression is that I'm not liking it.

Now, my system (linked below in my signature) is not super expensive or esoteric like many of your systems here, I know. But, I feel it is of a high enough resolution that I can indeed hear fairly subtle differences in sound quality. And, this is not really that subtle...

So, any opinions or thoughts would be great!

Thanks!

Jaime.

Thorensman · Aug 9, 2022

I honestly think you know the answer.
I found similiar results.
Alas, there are a few guys on this forum well versed in electronics.who may be able to explain better what's
Going here.
I refitted all standard powercords.
And standard distribution boards.
Got my partner to evaluate.
I did not say what I'd done.
Standard powerboats were preferred.
Hi end cords seemed to suck the life
Out of the system.
Maybe your Ears are telling you the truth.
The.point I find is that modern audio
Components are long lasting.
So.maybe manufacturers make their
Money with cables. And super fuses!【

Boltman92124 · Aug 9, 2022

latheofheaven · Aug 9, 2022

Thorensman said: ↑

I honestly think you know the answer.
I found similiar results.
Alas, there are a few guys on this forum well versed in electronics.who may be able to explain better what's
Going here.
I refitted all standard powercords.
And standard distribution boards.
Got my partner to evaluate.
I did not say what I'd done.
Standard powerboats were preferred.
Hi end cords seemed to suck the life
Out of the system.
Maybe your Ears are telling you the truth.
The.point I find is that modern audio
Components are long lasting.
So.maybe manufacturers make their
Money with cables. And super fuses!【
Click to expand...

Bummer... Probably true, thanks man!

Ampexed · Aug 9, 2022

I am an engineer at a company that makes audio power amplifiers for the high end. In the development cycle, I have never seen any special power cable being used - the amplifiers are designed and tested to perform as well as or better than spec using regular generic high quality AC cables (the ones we furnish with each unit). There are certainly variables in amplifier design which can yield subtle but audible changes in sound quality, but the 6 feet of AC cable plugged into the back of the amplifier isn't one of them.

Quite honestly, if an AC cable which is otherwise competent could somehow change the sound of an amplifier, don't you think we would find that something needed to be fixed before releasing the design? Sensitivity to what AC cable is used indicates that the design is unstable in some way. That is something which is avoided at all costs.

Steve Hoffman · Aug 9, 2022

Didn't know T.S. Eliot was a member here, I'm honored.

In the room the audiophiles come and go, talking of Michelangelo..

Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherized upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question ...
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.

In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes,
The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes,
Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap,
And seeing that it was a soft October night,
Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.

And indeed there will be time
For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
Rubbing its back upon the window-panes;
There will be time, there will be time
To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
There will be time to murder and create,
And time for all the works and days of hands
That lift and drop a question on your plate;
Time for you and time for me,
And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
And for a hundred visions and revisions,
Before the taking of a toast and tea.

In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

And indeed there will be time
To wonder, “Do I dare?” and, “Do I dare?”
Time to turn back and descend the stair,
With a bald spot in the middle of my hair —
(They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”)
My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin —
(They will say: “But how his arms and legs are thin!”)
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

For I have known them all already, known them all:
Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
I know the voices dying with a dying fall
Beneath the music from a farther room.
So how should I presume?

And I have known the eyes already, known them all—
The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?
And how should I presume?

And I have known the arms already, known them all—
Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
(But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!)
Is it perfume from a dress
That makes me so digress?
Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
And should I then presume?
And how should I begin?

Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets
And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows? ...

I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.

And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully!
Smoothed by long fingers,
Asleep ... tired ... or it malingers,
Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?
But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
Though I have seen my head (grown slightly bald) brought in upon a platter,
I am no prophet — and here’s no great matter;
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker,
And in short, I was afraid.

And would it have been worth it, after all,
After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
Would it have been worth while,
To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed the universe into a ball
To roll it towards some overwhelming question,
To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
If one, settling a pillow by her head
Should say: “That is not what I meant at all;
That is not it, at all.”

And would it have been worth it, after all,
Would it have been worth while,
After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor—
And this, and so much more?—
It is impossible to say just what I mean!
But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
Would it have been worth while
If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
And turning toward the window, should say:
“That is not it at all,
That is not what I meant, at all.”

No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant lord, one that will do
To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad to be of use,
Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed, almost ridiculous—
Almost, at times, the Fool.

I grow old ... I grow old ...
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.

I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
When the wind blows the water white and black.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.

ghost rider · Aug 9, 2022

Who knows what is the issue. I know years back I bought a high end USB cable from a well known manufacturer. It failed miserably it turned out it was a premature production cable and I ended up participating in beta testing and was sent several to test. I ended up getting two cables for my services. I was asked to destroy the beta cables sent to me and I did.

So my point is you really have no idea what cable you bought and how it was made. It may not have been such a great deal.

latheofheaven · Aug 9, 2022

Boltman92124 said: ↑

Click to expand...

HEY!!! We are not here for your entertainment!

SteveFord · Aug 9, 2022

Supra LoRad is a good, inexpensive power cord.
You can get them ready made or make your own.

Leao · Aug 9, 2022

Sold off all my supposed hifi purpose built power cords after I figured out my systems sounded better with cheap manufacturer supplied ordinary nothing special about them black ones.

latheofheaven · Aug 9, 2022

Leao said: ↑

Sold off all my supposed hifi purpose built power cords after I figured out my systems sounded better with cheap manufacturer supplied ordinary nothing special about them black ones.
Click to expand...

WOW, there you go! Learned something

latheofheaven · Aug 9, 2022

Steve Hoffman said: ↑

Didn't know T.S. Eliot was a member here, I'm honored.

In the room the audiophiles come and go, talking of Michelangelo..

Let us go then, you and I,
When the evening is spread out against the sky
Like a patient etherized upon a table;
Let us go, through certain half-deserted streets,
The muttering retreats
Of restless nights in one-night cheap hotels
And sawdust restaurants with oyster-shells:
Streets that follow like a tedious argument
Of insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question ...
Oh, do not ask, “What is it?”
Let us go and make our visit.

In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

The yellow fog that rubs its back upon the window-panes,
The yellow smoke that rubs its muzzle on the window-panes,
Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,
Lingered upon the pools that stand in drains,
Let fall upon its back the soot that falls from chimneys,
Slipped by the terrace, made a sudden leap,
And seeing that it was a soft October night,
Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.

And indeed there will be time
For the yellow smoke that slides along the street,
Rubbing its back upon the window-panes;
There will be time, there will be time
To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet;
There will be time to murder and create,
And time for all the works and days of hands
That lift and drop a question on your plate;
Time for you and time for me,
And time yet for a hundred indecisions,
And for a hundred visions and revisions,
Before the taking of a toast and tea.

In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.

And indeed there will be time
To wonder, “Do I dare?” and, “Do I dare?”
Time to turn back and descend the stair,
With a bald spot in the middle of my hair —
(They will say: “How his hair is growing thin!”)
My morning coat, my collar mounting firmly to the chin,
My necktie rich and modest, but asserted by a simple pin —
(They will say: “But how his arms and legs are thin!”)
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.

For I have known them all already, known them all:
Have known the evenings, mornings, afternoons,
I have measured out my life with coffee spoons;
I know the voices dying with a dying fall
Beneath the music from a farther room.
So how should I presume?

And I have known the eyes already, known them all—
The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?
And how should I presume?

And I have known the arms already, known them all—
Arms that are braceleted and white and bare
(But in the lamplight, downed with light brown hair!)
Is it perfume from a dress
That makes me so digress?
Arms that lie along a table, or wrap about a shawl.
And should I then presume?
And how should I begin?

Shall I say, I have gone at dusk through narrow streets
And watched the smoke that rises from the pipes
Of lonely men in shirt-sleeves, leaning out of windows? ...

I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.

And the afternoon, the evening, sleeps so peacefully!
Smoothed by long fingers,
Asleep ... tired ... or it malingers,
Stretched on the floor, here beside you and me.
Should I, after tea and cakes and ices,
Have the strength to force the moment to its crisis?
But though I have wept and fasted, wept and prayed,
Though I have seen my head (grown slightly bald) brought in upon a platter,
I am no prophet — and here’s no great matter;
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker,
And in short, I was afraid.

And would it have been worth it, after all,
After the cups, the marmalade, the tea,
Among the porcelain, among some talk of you and me,
Would it have been worth while,
To have bitten off the matter with a smile,
To have squeezed the universe into a ball
To roll it towards some overwhelming question,
To say: “I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all”—
If one, settling a pillow by her head
Should say: “That is not what I meant at all;
That is not it, at all.”

And would it have been worth it, after all,
Would it have been worth while,
After the sunsets and the dooryards and the sprinkled streets,
After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor—
And this, and so much more?—
It is impossible to say just what I mean!
But as if a magic lantern threw the nerves in patterns on a screen:
Would it have been worth while
If one, settling a pillow or throwing off a shawl,
And turning toward the window, should say:
“That is not it at all,
That is not what I meant, at all.”

No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant lord, one that will do
To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad to be of use,
Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed, almost ridiculous—
Almost, at times, the Fool.

I grow old ... I grow old ...
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.

I have seen them riding seaward on the waves
Combing the white hair of the waves blown back
When the wind blows the water white and black.
We have lingered in the chambers of the sea
By sea-girls wreathed with seaweed red and brown
Till human voices wake us, and we drown.
Click to expand...

HOLY SMOKES MAN!!!

I am truly not worthy...

Steve Hoffman · Aug 9, 2022

Love my groovy power cables, Kubala-Sosna. Purple goodness.

BayouTiger · Aug 9, 2022

latheofheaven said: ↑

HEY!!! We are not here for your entertainment!

Click to expand...

We are easily (but not cheaply) entertained!

I don’t discount power cords! But do find it curious that equipment manufacturers do not even offer them as upgrades with very few exceptions. Raven and PS Audio come to mind.

SteveFord · Aug 9, 2022

One of the founders of Conrad-Johnson said he hates to admit it but power cords DO matter so what comes with their products is worth using as they evidently did a little experimenting.

latheofheaven · Aug 9, 2022

Ampexed said: ↑

I am an engineer at a company that makes audio power amplifiers for the high end. In the development cycle, I have never seen any special power cable being used - the amplifiers are designed and tested to perform as well as or better than spec using regular generic high quality AC cables (the ones we furnish with each unit). There are certainly variables in amplifier design which can yield subtle but audible changes in sound quality, but the 6 feet of AC cable plugged into the back of the amplifier isn't one of them.

Quite honestly, if an AC cable which is otherwise competent could somehow change the sound of an amplifier, don't you think we would find that something needed to be fixed before releasing the design? Sensitivity to what AC cable is used indicates that the design is unstable in some way. That is something which is avoided at all costs.
Click to expand...

Quite honestly, I've always thought the same thing. If power cables impacted the amps and such that much, why would the manufacturer wimp out on the ones they provide with the unit (I'm thinking of my used Ayon Orion II integrated Tube Amp for example since it is likely the most expensive part of my system, and the PC looks fairly generic)

Steve Hoffman · Aug 9, 2022

Where is that TS Eliot guy again (post #2). I love reading stuff in verse..

Boltman92124 · Aug 9, 2022

latheofheaven said: ↑

HEY!!! We are not here for your entertainment!

Click to expand...

Chord looks nice! I think I've seen Underwood HiFi advertise a bunch of different products in the Audio mags lately. Kind of high value stuff. BTW, a lot going on in that sound room of yours! Those speakers certainly look room filling!

avanti1960 · Aug 9, 2022

latheofheaven said: ↑

Okay, firstly I'm not a BIG fan of Power Cables, etc. However, I did notice as I had mentioned in a thread a ways back that plugging my Crown 2502 into a different outlet (by way of a power strip, believe it or not...) than my Ayon Orion II integrated Tube Amp without really thinking about it or planning on it, did indeed sound better.

But, as I mention here above, the stock PC is not long enough to reach the other outlet (adjacent wall to where my Ayon is plugged in) so, I had to use the rather Cheeeeezy Monster (I know... ) power strip to reach it. I had an opportunity recently to purchase what looked like a nice heavy duty PC on HiFiShark or some such from this guy who is an engineer. It is this one:

Valiant | Underwood HiFi

It was brand new from the fellow who says he designed them originally and this was a sample he had lying around. As you can see on the site they go for about $350, but he was selling his new for $99, so I thought, why not, at least it would eliminate the Monster power strip...

Well, it IS long enough to reach the other outlet, so that was nice. BUT... in listening, it SEEMS like the low end (The Crown only drives the 2-15" dipole open baffle woofers bridged with both woofers wired parallel @ 4 ohms crossed over @125) sound rather boomy.

So, since I am a COMPLETE virgin (uh... to Power Cords...) I have NO bloody idea if the cable simply sucks, or if it needs 'break-in' time or what. But, my immediate impression is that I'm not liking it.

Now, my system (linked below in my signature) is not super expensive or esoteric like many of your systems here, I know. But, I feel it is of a high enough resolution that I can indeed hear fairly subtle differences in sound quality. And, this is not really that subtle...

So, any opinions or thoughts would be great!

Thanks!

Jaime.
Click to expand...

let your ears be your guide...
give it some time if you have a return window, just to say you did.
take notes about what you hear- good, bad and ugly. especially the ugly. anything that sounds irritating.
put the stock cable back in and compare notes.
i have tried aftermarket power cables on two occasions, not super expensive but not cheap either. in each case they made the sound worse.

Boltman92124 · Aug 9, 2022

Steve Hoffman said: ↑

Where is that TS Eliot guy again (post #2). I love reading stuff in verse..
Click to expand...

@Thorensman is must read always!

Ampexed · Aug 9, 2022

Being an inquisitive type, I would love to find an instance where an AC cable is causing some difference in sound out of the amplifier. An actual repeatable, and verifiable difference which stands up to blind testing. That would be a puzzle worth considerable research. Honestly.

Alas, the only culprit I have ever found is instances where a really crappy and under specified AC cable is used, and is constricting current delivery to the power transformer -> bridge rectifiers -> filter capacitors. In some of our higher power amplifiers, we use 20 amp IEC AC inlets, and in some cases we use two of them, one for each half of the amplifier so the channels are never starved of current. Of course these have to be plugged into a 20 amp wall socket (or two on separate breakers) which some people do not do, just plugging them into the same 15 amp outlet. Of course there will be power delivery issues, and that can certainly cause audible differences. In that instance, the solution is not a different power cable, but adequate current delivery from the wall.

Uglyversal · Aug 9, 2022

I hope I didn't get this completely wrong, if I did, I apologize before hand because I've only read part of the story. I've looked at the photo and the money paid.

My opinion is, you generally get what you pay for with some rare exceptions.

The photo you have included looks awfully similar to this Accupaseoid thing, you draw your own conclusions.

Accuphase OFC US EU HiFi Power Cable Audiophile Schuko Audio Main Supply Cord | eBay

Jaytor · Aug 9, 2022

latheofheaven said: ↑

Quite honestly, I've always thought the same thing. If power cables impacted the amps and such that much, why would the manufacturer wimp out on the ones they provide with the unit (I'm thinking of my used Ayon Orion II integrated Tube Amp for example since it is likely the most expensive part of my system, and the PC looks fairly generic)
Click to expand...

I have found that a good power cable does make an improvement, but the cheaper aftermarket cables were not much better than the generic cables (assuming the generic cable was heavy enough gauge) and sometimes worse. There is a bit of synergy involved, but cables made from high quality copper (e.g. Neotech UP-OCC) with good construction and high quality connectors have always performed better for me than cheap generic cables.

I have generally made my own cables using Neotech UP-OCC teflon jacketed wire, DH Labs Red Wave, etc. with a high quality connector (e.g. Furutech). If purchased as a complete cable, these would generally sell for $1000 to $1500 for a 2M cable. Making them myself cuts the cost a fair amount.

It wouldn't make much sense for a component vendor to spend the money necessary for even this quality of cable (which is FAR from the high end cables offered by most mainstream cable vendors). For buyers that feel it is worth the money to invest in higher end cables, everyone has their own preferences on cable vendor (many people feel that sticking with a single vendor for their entire cable loom makes the most sense), and not everyone needs the same length. When you are spending hundreds of dollars or more for an extra meter of cable length, including a cable that is not going to be useful for the customer is counter productive and would often price the product out of the market anyway.

Some vendors have just decided to not even bother including a power cable at all since they feel the customer is just going to put it in a drawer (e.g. Denafrips).

Obviously, everyone has to make their own decision whether to invest in expensive cables (of any kind). I didn't really hear much difference in cables until I started to try more expensive options (> $1K/cable). It obviously doesn't make sense to spend this kind of money if your not using components that are least several times more than this.

5-String · Aug 9, 2022

I had a similar experience with PS Audio AC10. Boomy as hell.
Did not work well in my system.
People claim that there is a break in period with cables. If there is, it shouldn't last too long.
I have never experienced break in in cables personally.
Cables are very system dependent. There is a lot of trial and error involved thus buy used to save or have a return window.

My favorite power cords are Shunyata. They are very balanced in my system and they definitely improved performance. In my system with my ears. I can not listen to my rig without them anymore.
I also like Audioquest. They have some reasonably priced cables that sound fine.

Douglas Lam · Aug 9, 2022

latheofheaven said: ↑

Okay, firstly I'm not a BIG fan of Power Cables, etc. However, I did notice as I had mentioned in a thread a ways back that plugging my Crown 2502 into a different outlet (by way of a power strip, believe it or not...) than my Ayon Orion II integrated Tube Amp without really thinking about it or planning on it, did indeed sound better.

But, as I mention here above, the stock PC is not long enough to reach the other outlet (adjacent wall to where my Ayon is plugged in) so, I had to use the rather Cheeeeezy Monster (I know... ) power strip to reach it. I had an opportunity recently to purchase what looked like a nice heavy duty PC on HiFiShark or some such from this guy who is an engineer. It is this one:

Valiant | Underwood HiFi

It was brand new from the fellow who says he designed them originally and this was a sample he had lying around. As you can see on the site they go for about $350, but he was selling his new for $99, so I thought, why not, at least it would eliminate the Monster power strip...

Well, it IS long enough to reach the other outlet, so that was nice. BUT... in listening, it SEEMS like the low end (The Crown only drives the 2-15" dipole open baffle woofers bridged with both woofers wired parallel @ 4 ohms crossed over @125) sound rather boomy.

So, since I am a COMPLETE virgin (uh... to Power Cords...) I have NO bloody idea if the cable simply sucks, or if it needs 'break-in' time or what. But, my immediate impression is that I'm not liking it.

Now, my system (linked below in my signature) is not super expensive or esoteric like many of your systems here, I know. But, I feel it is of a high enough resolution that I can indeed hear fairly subtle differences in sound quality. And, this is not really that subtle...

So, any opinions or thoughts would be great!

Thanks!

Jaime.
Click to expand...

So it seems your system is sensitive enough to show the difference in power cords. Congrats lol.

I noticed that you are running biamped. So you changed the power cord on the crown driving the woofer only? If that's the case, you might be unknowingly doing some EQ boost in the lower frequencies and that's why it sounds more boomy. Maybe you can try swapping the power cable that is driving the tweeters and mids?

I saw your room setup pictures (nice room btw!) and those 2 15"s are right at the corner. Lol, I think that's the way it's supposed to sound (bass heavy). Maybe the stock power cord is restricting the bass output all along. Might want to try repositioning the speakers using the new cord.

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New Power Cable seems to make the bass really boomy. Does it need break-in, or does it just suck?

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