New to 5.1, can't get a DVD with DTS Digital Surround to play in 5.1 rather than stereo*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Geordiepete, May 25, 2021.

  1. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    OK, thanks. Hadn't figured out MC.
     
  2. lv70smusic

    lv70smusic Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    How is everything connected? If you already described this, I missed it. If you have the PS4 connected to your TV and then are using an output from the TV to your receiver, it could be that the TV cannot pass the dts data stream. If you do have things connected this way, try to connect your PS4 directly to your receiver and then see what happens.
     
  3. Audiowannabee

    Audiowannabee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Yeah sometimes **** aint just so cut n dry ...or rather what happened to "insert disc n hit play"

    It can b rather frustrating at times can't it

    Multichannel can occasionally be :crazy: :cussing:
     
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  4. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    If you look at the rear cover, you’ll see the DVD-Audio/Video emblem. You’ll also see the MLP lossless 5.1 will only play on DVD-A players, but the DTS 5.1 (lossy) will player on DVD-A or DVD-V players. You only have DVD-V hardware, so your only 5.1 choice is lossy DTS. But it should be able to pass the DTS 5.1 to your AVR.

    So I suspect the problem is how you’re sending and/or receiving the DTS signal. Do you currently listen to 5.1 movies (via Bluray or DVD-V) from the PS4? If so, the King Crimson disc should be no different.

    Can you tell us the output settings on the PS4 (bitstream, analog, PCM, whatever), how you’re connecting to the AVR (what kind of cable, what PS4 output, AVR input), and your AVR settings for input?

    I’m not familiar with the PS4, but I would think if you 1) bitstream out of the PS4 via HDMI to 2) an HDMI Audio input on the AVR and 3) set the proper input on the AVR to Multichannel Stereo, you should get DTS 5.1.
     
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  5. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    From manual below, MULTI ST. seems like the correct option. If I am reading this correctly, mono/stereo sources are upmixed to multi-channel (as you expected), but multi-channel sources are passed to the appropriate channels.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    PS4 is connected to AVR via HDMI 2.0. TV is connected to AVR via HDMI 2.0, using the ARC ports on the TV and the AVR (TV and PS4 are not connected directly, only via PS4.)
     
  7. redchiro

    redchiro Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    As far as your AVR playing either Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 from any DVD or blu-ray movie/video disc, the settings on the AVR would be the same. So, if you can get Dolby Digital to decode in the AVR, you should be getting any DTS 5.1 soundtrack to decode. The other codecs for bluray, (not a DVD), are DTS master pro and Dolby Tru HD. And now for bluray and ultra bluray, there is Dolby Atmos. Your AVR (the version of HDMI) ultimately determines what will be decoded and the PS4 determines what is sent undecoded. Some people let the players decode and use analogue rca cables to their AVR-not an option with a PS4, so if it can send dts over HDMI, you should be good.
    If your PS4 can play a regular old DVD movie and your AVR shows Dolby digital is being sent and decoded, you should have no problem decoding DTS. Presumably, you would select that option on the DVD disc. DTS is an old codec as is Dolby digital. I would think your PS4 could send it via HDMI for your AVR to decode.
    You could try the optical out from the PS4 to the AVR and eliminate an HDMI issue.
    Any old dvd player or bluray player should play the lossy 5.1 dts from that disc. The PS4, not sure.
     
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  8. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    The PS4 is set to prioritize output to Bitstream (DTS). As for AVR settings for input, I'm not sure what that means. I do know it plays games, Blu-rays, and DVD videos in 5.1 no problem, automatically detecting the setting chosen on the on-screen menu. Except fort this King Crimson disc, however.

    Now, you suggest I set the AVR to Multichannel Stereo to hear this disc in 5.1 (with the PS4 sending it in Bitstream DTS, which is the setting it's been on since I set it up). However, I thought that Multichannel Stereo was, ahem, stereo, rather than 5.1. That is, stereo (two channels of data) that is sent to 5 speakers + a subwoofer, rather than a proper 5.1 audio set of channels. Otherwise, why call Multichannel Stereo stereo? Or am I mistaken? As I say, complete noob here.
     
  9. redchiro

    redchiro Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Does your Sony avr have an auto decode button? I have had 2 Sony AVR's and they had that button. The AVR would then decode whatever it was sent. All the other options were for adding Sony soundfields, prologic, or creating fake all channel "stereo", etc.
    I always used pure auto decode. The AVR always chose properly, whether I played a dvd for dd or dts or a cd for pure stereo. But, my Sony's had optical and coax inputs, not HDMI.
    Check for an auto decode and turn off the soundfields.
     
  10. Muppet

    Muppet Forum Resident

    Location:
    canada
    You are correct, Multi channel st is just a stereo stream output to all speakers. It’s not really multi channel it’s really stereo split to all speakers. can you try plugging your PS4 using your HDMI directly into your AVR input and then your other HDMI from your AVR output to your TV’s HDMI input. If that’s how you have it set up already I’d try an optical connection between your PS4 and the AVR but you must set the AVR up in its menu so that it recognizes that the signal is coming from that. Also if you look up above on this thread to Apesbrains chart, Direct is the real Multi Channel option that plays 5.1 definitely not Multi ST! It’s explained next to it. Hopefully that’ll work. Look also on your AVR for a button or setting that says Direct on it too and try that.
     
  11. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    No auto-decode button, but it has a button for Pure Direct, which just plays what is sent to it as is. The drawback with that is it doesn't take advantage of the room calibration set up when I plugged in the monoaural mic that came with the AVR for that purpose. Also, playing the King Crimson DTS in Pure Direct outputs only to the two front speakers (left and right). That made me think something is not right.
     
  12. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    I'm already connecting AVR and TV using the set-up you suggest (PS4 and AVR; TV and AVR; this way, TV and PS4 connect only via AVR). Also, I made sure to connect the TV and AVR using the dedicated ARC ports on each. Not sure what that does, but read it's better in that is prevents some two-way communication problem involving the video being sent and returned, or something!

    Read also that HDMI 2.0 is better than optical. I forget what optical can't do. Also, I don't have an optical cable nor have I seen one in my life. I imagine I could get one on Amazon for $8 or so.

    Yeah, I thought Multi St. was definitely not what I wanted, as it's just stereo. Also thought that Direct would be the best AVR mode in most situations. As I said in a few posts earlier in this thread, using Direct works with everything except this King Crimson DVD. (It's not a concert movie, by the way, it's an audio disc with the album on in 5.1 lossy, lossless and stereo lossy and lossless, plus a couple of short-ish videos as a bonus.) Pressing Direct with this DVD plays only stereo and only using the front left and right speakers.
     
  13. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    I don’t think this is correct. From the manual:

    “Multi-channel Stereo:
    Outputs sound from all connected speakers.
    When 2-channel or monaural audio signals are input, the receiver outputs sound from all speakers without adding any surround effect.
    When multi-channel audio signals are input, sound may not be output from certain speakers depending on the speaker settings or playback content.”


    So I think Multichannel Stereo setting is correct for multichannel material. It only outputs the stereo stream to all speakers IF it is fed a stereo program. If it’s fed a multichannel program, it properly assigns the 5.1 channels. It’s a confusing choice to name the setting but I suppose it is to accommodate the people who actually like stereo material in fake surround.

    Direct should also work - but I’m assuming you probably can’t use any level/delay calibrations, EQ adjustments, etc. with it. That’S the way many “direct” or “pure” modes work. However, at a glance, the manual isn’t particularly clear about this.
     
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  14. elvisizer

    elvisizer Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Jose
    Check the audio output settings in the system settings on the PS4- sounds like DD and DTS are not enabled on the PS4.
     
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  15. Audiowannabee

    Audiowannabee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    Go buy a bluray player that supports surround

    Cheapest newer player im aware of Sony ubp x800m2

    If u got the $
     
  16. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    Hmm, but the PS4 is a blu-ray player that supports surround. As I said in 5 or 6 posts above, there's no problem so far with my other DVDs and blu-rays playing in 5.1 sent from the PS4. If this disc won't play in surround in my Sony PS4 Pro, what's to say it will play in a UBP X800M2, also made by Sony?
     
  17. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    As I said in three or four posts above, one of the first things I did when I got the AVR was to go into the PS4 settings and make sure the audio output is set to prioritize Bitrate (DTS).
     
  18. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Maybe it's one of those rare incompatibilities between a specific player and a specific disc. Do you have other King Crimson DVD-As?
     
  19. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    Nope, just this one so far. A bit wary of buying more, now, until I solve the problem. Still, if this disc doesn't play as 5.1 in PS4s, I'd have thought someone here would have experienced it. Have you heard of similar incompatibilities? I might email DGM (the King Crimson publishing company) about this.
     
  20. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    I've never heard of any incompatibilities with those KC discs.
    Have you tried other DVD-Audio discs?
     
  21. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    I don't think I have any. I have several concert DVDs (Floyd, Stones, Bowie, etc.) and blu-rays, which all play fine. And my Beatles White Album plays fine in DTS 5.1 from the blu-ray. But I don't think I have another DVD-A. That said, this disc needs a special player (i.e. a DVD-audio player) to play the MLP lossless 5.1 but, as the back cover says, a DVD-video player should work fine to play the loss DTS 5.1 audio.
     
  22. Audiowannabee

    Audiowannabee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida

    Most of multi channel enthusiasts use players...oppo pioneer sony etc...not ps4 ...aint that a Video game player mainly???
     
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  23. Geordiepete

    Geordiepete Tippet tyer Thread Starter

    Location:
    Japan
    Many game players use the Sony PS4, your information is correct. But there should be no reason why the PS4 can't play blu-rays and DVDs (save for region coding and for DVD-As). Thanks for making a suggestion. But for now I am not interested in buying a new blu-ray player. I regret not making that clear in my original post.
     
  24. Doug_B

    Doug_B Time Traveler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Reading through this thread, I'm thinking similarly, with perhaps the Sony AVR also playing a part in this mess (HDMI related?). Settings on the PS4 and AVR that support DTS transmission from the PS4 and decoding at the AVR for all the DVD-V discs that the OP has successfully played should also work for the DVD-V DTS material that is available on the King Crimson disc (for players not supporting the DVD-A/MLP content).

    I'm curious if the King Crimson disc also provides a Dolby Digital 5.1 option for any of the material. If so, try that to see if it works. Also, as previously suggested, an inexpensive test would be to purchase an optical cable. This and digital coax were the methods of digital connectivity for DD / DTS prior to HDMI. Nothing would be lost by using optical for this disc in the OP's current system (if it works).

    Edit: For the King Crimson DVD-As, I have only "In the Court of...", and I see that there's no Dolby Digital 5.1 option, so I assume the "Lark's..." DVD-A doesn't have it, either.

    Doug
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  25. lv70smusic

    lv70smusic Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    If I'm not mistaken, the purpose of using the ARC labeled ports is that it will allow your receiver to process audio from apps you might use on your TV. If you're not doing this, I would eliminate a potential ARC issue by using an HDMI port on your TV that isn't labeled ARC. In my experience, ARC frequently causes more problems that it solves (at least the earlier versions of ARC) which is why so many people use the old-style optical digital connection instead of HDMI ARC.

    The main benefits of using HDMI rather than optical digital out is that the former carries both picture and sound while the latter carries only sound. There are some formats that optical digital cannot carry, but it has no problem with Dolby Digital or dts (not the newer versions of those codecs such as dts-HD Master Audio, but the ones you will find on standard dvds). Based on what you've written so far, I don't think you're going to lose anything by using optical digital versus HDMI. But this is only relevant if you need to feed audio from your TV back to your AVR. I don't use my TV's "smart features" -- I either use my Roku stick or blu-ray player for apps -- so I have no connection from my TV to send audio back to my AVR.

    Unfortunately, as you have discovered, the passage of time and changing digital standards have made connecting equipment, setting it up, and getting the desired results a lot more complicated than it used to be. Reading and rereading the manuals that came with the equipment can sometimes help, but I will say that the link you provided in your first post for your AVR is so horribly written that it isn't much help. I reread the page you linked a few times and also looked at a few other sections of that manual and am still not 100% sure which setting would be preferred for your scenario. One would think "direct" should work but you state it isn't. Based on what the manual says, it sounds like the "Multichannel Stereo" setting should also output multichannel audio if the input being processed has multichannel audio, and send stereo audio to all speakers when a stereo source is being played. But you indicate that isn't what's happening, either, so who knows what's going on.

    My other thought: You said your other dvds are playing in surround. Are you playing the dts track on those or Dolby Digital? Just because one format might be playing back correctly doesn't mean the other will.
     

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