New vs. vintage turntable for beginner

Hello folks,

I've been reading the forums obsessively for a long time, but this is my first post. I'm curious to hear your opinion on whether it makes more sense to go vintage or new for a sub- $300-400 turntable.

The obvious answer is "it depends" but I just find it curious that the new turntables in that range typically don't even have auto-return. Not only that, but for most of the new TTs there is a wealth of negative feedback one can find - anything from hum to poor construction quality. That money for a vintage one actually brings you in a top of the range, it seems.

Are there "beginner" vintage turntables that you could recommend, provided one can find them in decent state? Or should I just go for the typical recommendations I see everywhere, Pro-Ject, AT120, etc?

Appreciate any help!

 

Indeed new TTs don't even have auto-return (except for the Hanpin Denon) . If that is as important to you as it is for me (I own a fully auto DD vintage Pioneer) go vintage.

 

New as you say will get you something like a Project, Music Hall, Elac, or AT. A friend of mine in the HiFi business would go for AT every time. Either would be a good starting point. Don’t agonise.
You’ll obviously get more bang for your buck if you go for used or ex demo/open box. With ex demo it’s less of a risk and you usually get full warranty too. For used, you can either go real vintage like an old Dual or Thorens, or Pioneer. Or one that’s fairly new (only a couple or a few years old) like a Rega. I’m not sure if $400 stretches to a used Planar 3 or not in Canada ?
You’ll need to factor in the cost of a cartridge if your deck isn’t prefitted with one, and a phono amp if your amplifier/receiver doesn’t have a phono stage built in.
If you are eligible have a look in the Forum classifieds, otherwise Craigslist, Audiogon or eBay for used, or Music Direct for new, or check local dealers for ex demo deals.
I’m sure members will give you further advice on specific choices if you need it.
I don’t know why you want auto return....but you are likely to need to go older if you do, and it obviously limits choice.

 

It doesn’t mater, it really doesn’t. You will always get more for your money buying used but you get no support or reliability. You also don’t get much choice.

So the advice of “buy used” isn’t going to be practical for most people. It’s not like there is a used stored everyone can go look at turntables. You need some experience and knowledge to buy something good on eBay or Craig’s list and likely need to know a good tech. Not to mention needing to learn about buying and mounting a cart.

When you are starting out you need a friend to help if buying used or you need to buy new. Either way you will be fine and way better off than not having a turntable.

 

If the deciding factor is Auto-Return, then your $300-$400 is better off exploring vintage decks with that feature. Auto-Return isn't a feature that is often included on most turntables and more than likely will only be included in decks priced at half your budget. The issue is that including this kind of mechanism adds mechanics and motors that would otherwise go toward bearings. Turntables today are very fairly priced relative to what was available 30 years ago. The price hasn't really increased all that much. I bought a Music Hall MMF-2.1 for $299 over twenty years ago. You could get the MMF-2.2 for as little as $225 last month. A Rega Planar 6 is about the same price as the P5 if you add in the price of the external power supply. What has changed is the materials, design, and workmanship; and all for the better. But features have been removed to make the designs more affordable. Simplification has kept the prices low. If you want auto-features, the vintage models offer a much better selection than modern offerings.

 

I don't get the need for the auto return. You have to get up and flip the record or remove it at the end of the side. The auto return is saving you about ten seconds of stylus time that it takes to walk over to the table. I guess its cool if you are playing records and not listening to them, like you fall asleep or are in another room, an auto return would be super helpful. If you are playing music as background noise, do yourself a favor and stream or play CD's. Why go through all the effort and expense?

 

If you have any technical/mechanical ability, buy used vintage. If you aren't inclined that way buy new.



I bought this one for less than $50 on ebay. It's in beautiful shape, runs well, and it has auto-return.

 

And it's gorgeous

 

Thanks. That pic was taken before I cleaned it up.

 

Hell of a deal, looks like new.

 

The thing with vintage turntables is you should buy one only if you have the technical skills to fix anything that might go wrong, or if you live near a really good, trustworthy, and reputable audio repair shop that can fix stuff for you (or if you live near a reputable shop that sells used gear which has been professionally serviced and comes with some sort of warranty). Otherwise, it's probably not worth it.

That said, to my mind an excellent beginner turntable would be something like an old Technics SL-1400. I have the earlier version (can't comment on the MKII version), which I use in the bedroom (so it's not my main turntable), but I can't think of an easier-to-use and more hassle-free turntable that this. It's well built and has given rock-solid performance for many years, and sounds great with an AT440MLa cart. It used to be that you could pick one of these up in good, working condition for a few hundred bucks, but I have no idea if that's still the case.

Other non-SL-1200 Technics tables are also worth looking at. These things were built like tanks, they are very reliable and easy to operate, and they are probably less expensive than a 1200.

 

Vintage, vintage, vintage. If you're going to understand all the rigamarole you have to go through to get decent results with your LP's, learn it from somebody who's been there back in that day. I know, that sounds geezer-centric and irrelevant, but seriously, learn from a good turntable that didn't have all the modern trappings or bells and whistles, then when you really understand what you want in a turntable, you'll know why. And, before the next $500 outlay, you'll be prepared for what you can expect so you won't resent the money you waste anticipating the "heavenly epiphany" that doesn't really come without a little extra work.

The only think I want to get past now, having had my mediocre Sansui since the '80s, is that hard-wired interconnect that comes out of the back, and the shorted wire in my tone arm that somehow moves around when you are trying to track it down.

 

Vintage if you can find a local tech doing resto / recondition work, I would buy from him.

 

Thanks for your advice. I do see a lot of different Technics TTs on classifieds sites here, and end up googling -- inevitably this leads to some thread on audiokarma from 10 years ago when they were all going for $80 and people saying that's way too much

The one turntable that I wish was cheaper is Pioneer PL-570. The looks, the functions, it's just so nice. But this goes for around $1000 USD here, and even at that price point I'm not sure if the Pioneer is a better option than, say Rega Planar 3 (about $1100 USD here).

 

I should've mentioned that I do have an old hand-me-down Kenwood KD-40R, so technically I'm looking for an upgrade and not a first turntable. The Kenwood still works, but it's probably not a match to the rest of the rig. The speakers are Kef R500 with a NAD C368 integrated amp.

Don't mind spending more money on fixing up a vintage TT, as long as it's something nice like that sweet, sweet Pioneer PL-570!

 

This, to me, looks so much better than these minimalist Rega and Pro-Ject TTs!

 

Do peek at the new Fluance Reference tables.

 

Yeah, I was just speaking in the agregate. You don't really have much more of a choice to make at this point, either you find what you want...or you can pass on an option, and keep your powder dry until you find that dream table for yourself. For me, it's everything one has picked up along the way, that will give you the wisdom for that next choice. The people here are very well-versed on equipment, but they don't know what it really is that's driving you towards your next purchase, at least emotionally, nostalgically, or even some damn fool idea you've got in your head you have to either trust them to steer you away from...or persevere until you can pull that trigger, and find out for yourself. If you do know what you suspect you want, and don't want somebody with knowledge you don't have to talk you out of it...trust your instincts; and, don't be afraid to admit it if you find you miscalculated your own expectations!

 

Ahhh thank you for taking the time to write such a kind response. It's all part of a journey indeed

 

Go Rega TT and cart, easy setup.

 

How about the Kenwood KD-500?

jeff

 

Kenwood KD-500, AKA "The Rock." Never had one, but I hear they were a pretty good direct drive table and sounded good with a decent cartridge.

 

My vote is for a clean used vintage table in that price range. Keep your eyes open, there are deals out there on nice ones in that range. IME, at that price point you'll get a lot better build quality plus they're just cooler.

 

Have you considered upgrading the cartridge on your Kenwood? I'm assuming there is nothing wrong with the turntable you have mechanically and that could get you a decent bang for the sonic buck as opposed to a new TT...

 

I went vintage, refurbished. I'm sure there are several places online that sell these but (IDK if this is allowed, if not sorry tell me and I won't do it anymore) I got mine from Oak Tree Vintage. I'm not affiliated. I got a fully auto Sony PS-X55 from them for a good price and they have something like a 90 day warranty.