New vs. vintage turntable for beginner

I have been burnt buying old used gear that eventually cost more than new just to get it running properly---forget it!
You could buy a new Audio Technica LP120usb for $300 and if it gave you any problems it would be under warranty.
This table is capable of decent performance and is a known product with lots of shared knowledge about how to live with it happily even IF it is possible you might have to do a quality control shakedown to get it at peak performance.
It is popular enough that you won't run into many mysterious problems that don't have a relatively easy solution available.
Part of what makes a turntable work well is how hard YOU work at getting it to perform.
Might as well not start out with a broken headache for your troubles.
My two cents.

 

If you want to go vintage I totally agree with the above. Not sure how far $ 400 will go, though.

 

Some of those Pioneers are pretty nice, but they do seem to have gone up in value. I used to have a PL-530, and while it sounded decent, it was a bit fussy (as it was fully automatic). I think the Technics PL-1400 is better.

Any 70s Technics in good cosmetic and working condition like an SL-1400, 1500, etc., would be a good find if you can nab one for $400 or less. The days of finding those for $80 are looooong gone.

 

If your Kenwood is working properly, and it probably is, no new turntable under $500 will be better in performance, or last as long as the Kenwood has already, or last as long as the Kenwood will still last.

It could be nice to have a tech give it a clean/lube/adjust. Yet, if there is nothing wrong with its performance now, don't mess with it now. It could be time to reward it with a cart upgrade or at least a new stylus.

 

There’s a Pioneer PL2 for sale on ebay.com for under $400. It’s bottom of the PL range, and I don’t know how good it is. But it’s brand new. So you get a brand new, but vintage looking deck, with auto return. May tick all the OPs boxes. Plenty of other Pioneers too at various price points.

 

Another possibility is to forgo fully automatic return on either a new or used TT . Add +/- $50 into your budget & buy a Q-Up or other tone arm lifter. This way all of 100 percent of your money is going towards playing the records and not some of it buying a built in auto lift mechanism. Also if you start having problems with the tone arm lifter, you simply replace it. You are not involved with sending your TT in for repair.

 

Interesting, I didn't know that was a thing. I even see some for $30CAD on Amazon (not with stellar reviews though). Thanks!

 

Nice add on. Thanks for the info.

 

That's the thing though, it's listed at $500CAD, since it's NOS you know it's all gunked up so needs service, and plus there's a hefty shipping fee. By that time it becomes Rega Planar 2 money...

 

Yeah they're really gorgeous. I'm still kind of kicking myself for not jumping on a fully functional PL-570 that was sold locally here for $700 CAD. Those things are really going for 1300-1400 now, probably solely based on looks.

 

I guess I'm more concerned about value than price. By the end of all the required maintenance on a good vintage TT, at least for some of them, it becomes a better value proposition than a modern TT.

It's true that LP120 is probably the most popular entry-level TT, but something about it just turns me off. Maybe it's the looks, maybe it's this talk about having to rip out the built-in preamp on it, I don't know...

 

NOS means New Old Stock. If it's NOS it should be new, never used and not gunked up.

 

Last week I picked up a 42 year old Technics SL 1300 MK 1 dirt cheap in excellent condition, and after using an AT LP120 & Music Hall MMF 2.2 (considered newer budget tables) I would recommend Vintage all the way. No contest. Not even close.

 

It probably depends on the age, but in the few videos I've seen on NOS stuff, notably from Techmoan, there is some serious cleaning required to relube the mechanism. But yes, NOS is definitely an option and it is in its own category as it's not quite vintage or new!

 

Are you talking about the quality of reproduction, or overall build quality? Or both?

 

If someone lists a used piece as NOS, they don't know what NOS means. I see this with tubes all the time. Makes me wonder.

 

Quality for the price point. I'm sure more expensive modern turntables would blow the SL 1300 out of the water,, but not the modern budget ones.

 

When I started listening to records again I bought an AT-120 partly because I could learn about turntables on it, as opposed to say a more plug and play U-turn for example.

A year or so later I was in the LRS and he had a Pioneer 112D that looked decent, but needed a stylus, for $50. I figured, what the hell? I had an extra cartridge at the house so I put it on there, learned more about turntables, how to set them up, etc. I’m comfortable installing and aligning cartridges now, for example.

It was immediately clear to me that the Pioneer sounded so much better, to my ear. I sold the AT-120 pretty soon afterwards and bought more records. I’m certain most modern TTs sound nicer than the budget minded AT-120, but since I was starting out and juggling a budget I didn’t want to break the bank. I’m still happy with the vintage Pioneer. The 112d doesn’t have auto return tho. That would be nice, but I still have cds for when I might fall asleep.

For me I’d likely recommend vintage assuming everything works, I bought mine from my record dealer, who knew me and he would have refunded my money if the player had had problems I couldn’t live with. Eventually I’ll replace it with something nice when finances allow and the urge strikes me. I suppose if my budget was >$700 I would be better with new

 

The nice thing about something like a Rega even used is there isn't much to go wrong. It's just a motor spinning a platter with no automatic controls. I've had a few old tables including a Thorens 126 and a Dual but they were finicky and unusable after a while, needing expensive repairs. Conversely I've been running a Rega P25 purchased used 15 years ago and it's still excellent.

 

My Q-Up was a bit of a PITA to set up and my first try at it was not 100 percent successful. The upper mechanism is made to be able to adjust up and down and side to side by sliding in a series of grooves/slots in the base. When you make a side to side adjustment to make it trip at the right spot in the lead out groove you need to be careful not to accidentally change the height. My dealer specifically warned me about this and he was right. Also my EAT C-Sharp didn't have a ton of excess room where my Q-Up needed to go for this tonearm. Part of the anti-sharing mechanism was fairly close to the platter. This will not be a problem for everyone. My dealer mentioned a lot of people get frustrated trying to set it up, and while a little finicky it was far from impossible. So a bit fussy to position and a bit fussy to set up. I had it up and running in less than 5 minutes. Do have your stylus guard handy while you set it up. In my case it was never needed.

The first time I got mine set up perfectly it worked for a week or so and then the side to side adjustment went bad. The tonearm no longer lifted when the record ended. The "impact" of the tonearm contacting the little trip button had gradually pushed the the unit sideways in the slot far enough that the arm no longer tripped it. I got it back into proper adjustment and cut a piece off an Avery label and applied it to both sides to hold the two pieces in place. I have been going 3 months straight with zero additional problems. Even if I had to replace it every year, that is like the price of an album or two. I liked the idea that the lift was independent of the tonearm design. If the Q-Up stops working, I simply go to my dealer and buy a replacement. Meanwhile I am not stuck sending the TT in for repairs if something stops working in the lift mechanism built into the tonearm.

 

If auto return is that much of an issue but you want a new model for warranty etc.... Just get a new one and buy a Q Up. It will add at least an auto lift at the end of the record rather than return.

Personally I'd normally recommend a project debut if its your first turntable. They sound good and are pre set up so you can just listen to the records which is what it's ultimately all about.

 

Problem with vintage is needing a rebuild and possibly a repair in not too distant future, So, you take your chances on used vintage. For your budget, I would buy a used current manufacture Pioneer PLX-1ooo turntable. Reliable and sounds good for the money spent. Later you can save up for a VM540ML cartridge and end up with a seriously performing TT set up.

 

At the $300-$400 for table and arm, you'll get more value from vintage, but as others have noted, potentially a lot more in the way of headaches -- maintenance and restoration may be required, you'll have limited if any access to service manuals (though you can sometimes find some of these things online), and unless you're playing with among the most popular older decks, you may have trouble finding people who know anything about them and can work on them. And the price can ratchet up quickly if you can't do the work yourself (and sometimes the work is simple, like with old belt drive tables, -- new bearing oil, new belt, new suspensions springs -- sometimes more complex with an idler wheel or something, or something you may difficulty even knowing about if you're buying used from a marketplace like eBay or something).

Furthermore, despite the romance that surrounds vintage turntables, there are plenty that were mediocre or bad, so it's best if you really know what you're looking for when you begin to hunt around.

There are almost no auto return tables made anymore. Today's tables are made much more with the audiophile in mind, so, simpler designs, fewer moving parts, fewer bells and whistles, if the money goes into anything as you move upmarket, it goes into isolation or motor control to reduce vibration, etc., not the convenience features of the past that are not in high demand -- auto return, record stacking. So if you're looking for those kinds of features you're options are largely going to be vintage.

Also, if you're looking for vintage styling, well, there aren't a lot of new turntables that have that (unless you're looking for the retro '70s DJ table look, which apparently you are not).

Sounds to me, that with your interest in vintage styling and vintage features like auto-return, what you really want is a vintage table.

 

I ended up going vintage for both turntables, at least I'm assuming things from the 80's would be considered vintage. Was originally planning on new but it's hard to justify new (beyond it being new) when you can get a much better turntable for the money. Went with a Rega Planar 3 a couple years ago, it already had a new motor and a bunch of other upgrades ect and it sounds fantastic, few weeks back bought a Technics 1200 for the living room that also sounds great. Neither have the return, have a Q up on the Rega which is overpriced but a great tool, unfortunately it doesn't work on the 1200 without some modification.

 

Turntables are one of the areas where it make sense to go used or vintage if you are below a certain dollar threshold. However, the availability of used equipment locally can vary depending on where you live. I don't recommend buying off eBay for most people and I would recommend staying away from CL as well unless you are prepared to learn a bit about testing out the TT before buying. At a minimum, the usually involves downloading the manual from Vinyl Engine and going over all the functions when you go to look at the used TT.

A better option for someone new is to find a shop that sells vintage gear locally. In my area, there are several options. I realize this isn't everywhere. Typically, you will pay a little more than CL but you'll end up with something that works and you won't have to worry about clueless eBay sellers that don't know how to pack a turntable properly.

As far as buying, mounting, and aligning a cartridge - IMHO this is a basic skill one should learn if you are going to own a turntable. If it's too much trouble, then I would say you probably want to forget about turntables and vinyl.

As far as specific models, no. We need to know what is available in your area first. I would personally look for something that takes a universal headshell, has a decent medium mass arm, and is a Japanese direct drive. Typically these table usually need very little to get up and running. You can look up specs on VE for any models you see locally.