“The search for the perfect sound” https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...ive/2022/perfect-sound-quality-vinyl-records/ Extensive mainstream press article on vinyl, including notable interviews, comparisons to digital, and A/B test tracks.
“Port says that Kassem “has never made a single good sounding record” since AP’s founding in 1991. (Kassem calls Port a “f---ing loser.”)” Yeesh, where do they find these freaks?
Listening test for Carole King: "I feel the earth move" - Channels are reversed (okay, one can fix that) - High resolution vs. Low resolution gives you two different masterings (they should have taken the Hi-Res file and downsample that). So yes, a stupid test indeed.
That is actually useful feedback… I’ll pass that onto our tech folks. And not to defend the sound test… But deciding how to do them was complicated because the people on this board are much more savvy and educated than the people who are going to be reading.
Sounds like a normal day 'round these parts. But, seriously, never made a good sounding record? Even if AP stopped at Sax's vinyl mastering of "Waltz for Debby", that would be enough for me.
I did think the pressing he liked was the best. But I found it interesting that the ERC record, which sounded really flat on his system, sounded much better of Fremer’s… bear in mind I am NOT A CRITIC.
Geoff, if it hasn't been said yet, very nice job on the search for the perfect sound WaPo piece. I think a follow up to your MoFi story was absolutely necessary. this is a timely, generous offering... not only for the vinyl enthusiast crowd, but a larger group of non-audiophiles. I look forward to future articles as we all navigate this horrible, wax drug addiction while searching for a holy grail in a distant crate somewhere.
Appreciate you being here Geoff (author of the piece, I assume) - and since I want to give useful feedback and not just complain: the listening tests are annoying because, IMO, they play into cliche questions and use 'test material' that voids the whole point to the test. As someone who tries to make this hobby inclusive and not something that sounds more like a mental issue, I'd hope you'd understand the annoyance of the oversights mentioned below. Someone above mentioned the fundamental issue with the 2nd test - different masterings - but the first is problematic on a few levels. You ask people "can you hear the difference between an analog and digital recording" but both are digital files. That's not a real-world test of the question you're asking. That's like asking someone to pick the original piece of art from a digitally scanned copy - but you have to choose by looking at two photos of each one. Also, are the masterings of the two versions you recorded, the same master? 99.9% of people are going to try these tests and before they choose - think to themselves - "what ding-dong actually claims they can hear a difference?" And that simply just feeds the stereoptype of audiophiles just hearing what they want to hear. The article itself is a solid overview of the hobby, and I appreciate your honest sharing of your experience with Fremer. The structure of it is well thought out and expertly written. Just hate the tests. I do wish we could help everyone understand that if you as a consumer make the active choice of one pair of $15 earbuds over the free ones that came with your phone - because they "sound better" - that qualifies you as an audiophile.
It sounds like the channels are reversed on only one file to me (is it both?) The biggest difference to me is I can hear tape hiss on one, but not the other. But, I got both tests wrong anyhow.
I did a quick listening test on "which sample is the vinyl recording" from the article right there from my laptop, got it right, then ran up to my 13 year old son who was sitting there watching a baseball game on TV, played both for him, ambient noise and all, and he got it right. Neither of us have ever heard the passage. He certainly hasn't done a ton of record listening. I know, 25% odds we'd both get it right. But still.
This part i've never understood about people doing needle drops and comparing files to analog playback. If cutting lacquers from digital sources is such a big problem for the analog obsessed, surely doing needle drops is even less useful, since that process is surely more lossy than studio grade digital conversions. I'll have to admit to never bothering to listen to an A/B comparison of a digitized vinyl file.
hey there. So I am glad to comment and answer questions. And if you can’t take criticism on a story, why write? But I’ll explain the rationale a bit more for sound files. And this is with a caveat. I don’t want to let the use of those files distract from the fact they are just one small tool of many - design, video, photo - meant to help readers with the experience. There are incredible limitations … the fact we have no control on what somebody is listening to is a huge one. I went to New York with our audio person to oversee the capture. I brought the records. We did our best to find the same digital files and to source for folks. I was surprised that it would be even interesting or revelatory to anyone that a record and a digital file sound different. BUT we shared the files internally and found that so many colleagues - particularly those under 40 - were shocked there was a difference. That made us realize the audience for this story (not savvy audio folks like you’d find here) is much wider and much less knowledgeable. I am going to double check on the Carole King but I believe the audio files were from an online service. So the source may have had the channels reversed. Also… we adjusted for volume but I do not believe we tinkered with those files otherwise.
So very much appreciate that you're willing to engage and discuss. Thank you for that, and the background. I do believe these types of things CAN be educational in the cause of explaining this weird hobby; the idea that you have to 'learn how to listen, what to listen for and why that's important.' We can claim that "it sounds better is subjective", and maybe it is, but I can also argue that "better should equal, accurate". I got both questions correct. For anyone that has the understanding of what to listen for to pick those differences out (and they're not trying to do so via laptop speakers) should be able to pretty easily. That's the opportunity I feel the tests miss, along with the previously mentioned concerns over the source. Providing the files, along with an explanation of what you're hearing and why one is more accurate (better) than the other is what I think we miss in these test offerings - the opportunity to educate the ideas of what most of here strive to do and the question of your article "does perfect sound exist?" thanks again.
That helps to show why there isn't always a consensus on"best pressing". Different systems accentuate different aspects of a record. Wondering if the copy where Tom said "if you were playing me a CD right now, I wouldn't be able to tell you weren't" was the Legacy reissue or the MoFi? It appears you could clearly see his assistant putting the records on and I'm guessing it would be noticeable if the platter was spinning at 45 rpm. Not trying to suggest he doesn't have good ears but one record at a different speed would be a tell. I have an original Ode pressing and haven't bought the others to compare, so not certain which pressing he was describing.
He was commenting on the MoFi. Just so you know, this filming was done months before the MoFi story broke.
Whatever happened to just loving the music. Jeepers…….enough already. I got into music listening to 45’s on a turntable inside a tweed suitcase for crying out loud. The music was all that mattered then, and still does today. I have a nice stereo setup, and I want quality sound like everyone else here, but it always comes down to the music itself in the end. I don’t have the income to support multiple copies of the same album for comparisons. If it feels good to me, then I’m happy.
The article did lead me down a bit of a rabbit hole. To be fair, I don’t doubt he has an encyclopedic knowledge and has heard better systems than I will be able to afford for a decade or more, so I can’t really say if a 500 buck hot stamper is worth it or not. From an outsiders perspective, it feels like how geniuses of old wasted their talents pursuing the philosophers stone. Kevin Gray also doesn’t seem to buy his schtick, judging from the Steve Westman YouTube interview.
It's like anything else...some will believe while others won't ...take you choice. I'm all digital ( I do play my many analog needledrops) but no longer play vinyl LPs...so I have no interest in hot stamper.
Just loving the music is a perfectly reasonable approach for you, and for most people. Nothing wrong with it. Not certain why the way other people want to enjoy music would be upsetting. My first system was a portable player like the one below and listening to Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow album in the basement of my parents' home back in the 70's is still a treasured memory. I really loved the music. As much as that meant to me then, and now, it's different for me today. I now find that I appreciate the ability to follow any instrument while hearing all of them clearly articulated, even when there is a lot going on in the mix. This greatly enhances my enjoyment of listening to the music I love and lets me hear each musician's contribution to the whole. Better pressings and a very good system can often deliver this. I'm happy that other people love the same music I do, even if in a different way, such as listening to an MP3 version on an iPod. I, for one, am grateful there are people like Tom, the music geeks on this forum, the small group of exceptional mastering engineers, the companies that produce the LP's and the audiophiles who support them. Without all of them, we could have found ourselves with far fewer options for the music we all enjoy.
I watched a bit after you posted. Weird how Westman presented the story. As if it was on hot stampers, not on the larger subject. Also… Port has been pretty negative about Kevin Gray for years so it’s not surprising they don’t send each other thank you notes.
Geoff - Thanks for being here and great article. We have virtually the same music history. Same age. Same vinyl renaissance. The one difference seems to be I stuck with the Harbeths rather than trading up (upgraded every other part of my system though). How do you avoid FOMO and the upgrade treadmill? If it wasn't for my wife, I'd be spending the kid's college tuition on this stuff.
