What I meant in the post above @mant1ana was merely to use the Linton's as a reference point you're already familiar with?
There should be plenty reviews of the old studio 100s which were highly regarded. Might not be so good as a domestic speaker as the Response models? Unfortunately don't recall hearing them but the D2 R are really impressive for their size. I don't think you would need a sub with them or the SM100. Note the quality of drivers and look compared with Wharfedale. Personally Dovedales and Lintons remind me why these big box speakers went out of fashion. The new Dovedale is bigger and more intrusive than the old versions I had in the mid 1970s. Thread on Pink Fish for the SM100 - Who's heard the new ProAc SM100's?
another posting on the new Dovedales wondering why such a huge price increase…. Wharfedale's Dovedale Heritage Loudspeakers Come With Some Sticker Shock “The Dovedale Heritage is larger than the Linton Heritage, but we’re slightly perplexed by the enormous price difference between the two loudspeakers. What could possibly explain such a huge increase?”
From the looks of that Tweeter opening, someone needs to replace the Cutting Bit in their Router/CNC Machine. Pretty rough for a Speaker in this price range...
My takeaway from this interview is that the Dovedale has the same tweeter as Linton and Denton. I'm telling ya, all the materials are the same (as Linton), only more attention was paid to things like resonances, bracing, etc. This speaker shouldn't cost 6000 Euro!
It's also a reminder just how incredible the Lintons are. Don't forget that, and give yourself a pad on the shoulder for having bought a set
At least half of it is made in China in that case. The difference in price between Linton and Dovedale does not add up. I've seen them side by side. Some extra refinement in similar components and a bigger better damped box. The Dovedale box is much better but Linton isn't bad. There is more UK made content in the Mission 770. I can see the Dovedale being heavily discounted in a year or two. The problem is obvious if you compare to cars, Wharfedale Dovedale is a Dacia at Audi price. You wouldn't pay same for a Dacia as an Audi even if it does essentially the same job and has the same equipment level.
We really need to give it a rest until these speakers have been reviewed and given a chance to show their worth. I know you have heard them Classicrock, but not under optimal conditions. Please do remember it is not like a set of similarly priced Harbeths are made of gold or use materials that are vastly more sofisticated than those in the Dovedales. Lets wait and see, hear, how these speakers perform and , if only for a while, forget about the pricing (especially in relation to the Lintons).
They keep surprising me. And even though the Atalante 5 are intriguing, I'm not ready to let the Lintons go.
In my opinion, the Lintons are a bit underpriced. I'd like to hear the Dovedale before making an opinion. I do think though that a company like Wharfedale, including the power and economy of scale of its parent, has the ability to make amazing products that other smaller manufacturers just can't at the price point.
Main complaints/wishes I've seen about the Linton are top end refinement and detail. I think the Dovedale will provided just that with more bass down low, better build quality, and larger scale. Considering law of diminishing returns and how good the Linton are, they may be just what one would graduate to from the Linton without sacrificing what makes them so special.
That could well be right on the money and also what could realisticly be expected. I really can't wait to see the reviews.
I'd agree with that. I've expressed the same opinion several times myself. That said, there are a few - minor IMO - clues that it's still built to a price. One of them is contained in @Merkinman's post... It's worth noting that in the video @Classicrock linked just upthread - Mr Comeau mentions that the Dovedale uses the same tweeter as the Linton does. He didn't specifically say it but I think we can reasonably deduce that the midrange driver will be the same unit too? But... Wharfedales published material about the Dovedale makes clear it is a more sophisticated design. It has a separate crossover for Highs and Mids and a second one dedicated to Bass. And in the video he also describes an isolation chamber for the tweeter too - presumably little more than a 10 cent section of cardboard tube like the one that isolates the Linton's midrange driver - but still better than if it wasn't there right? All of which leads me to muse about two things. 1) The drivers in the Linton must be capable of more, but due to be being hampered within a "built to a price" speaker haven't been exploited to their full potential. And 2) The Dovedale may exploit their true quality more fully and may well be the speaker the Linton could've been had it not been limited in ambition by budget? So how can I make sense of all of the above? The Linton's could've sold for a bit more for what they are, but the Dovedales seem overpriced for what they are? How do we meet in the middle here? Whether the reviews for the new speaker are positive or not seems immaterial to me. In all likelihood they will be. But any reasonable buyer - especially one with first hand experience of living with the Linton - may still be left trying to find value in the new speaker? Reading the discussion above it seems that opinions are divided. I remain skeptical myself. This speaker (a 2" larger bass driver aside) feels like little more than a Linton 2.0 not it's own, standalone thing... and that it re-uses key Linton parts muddies the value perception even more IMO, even if the box is nicer. I have no doubt it will be a more refined speaker. And the larger cabinet and woofer will likely mean greater scale and low end authority too. There's just no way I could ever pay that much more for it. Twice as much? Sure... take my money! Hell... even two and a half or (at a push depending on how special they might be) three times more and it could still have been a "maybe"... But at a five times price hike they can keep 'em. Sorry. For me it comes down to the perception of value. Or lack thereof. Ever since I first bought the Linton's that was my one big worry. I'll admit, I obsessed about it a little actually. And yet - I've just found what I was looking for from a pair of Forte IV's... same non-fatiguing sound you can listen to for hours on end... same musicality and gorgeous tone... but with scale, authority and ability to pressurize the room with an ease the Linton's couldn't touch in my room and just the right uptick in resolution, clarity and transparency I always wished I could have from the Linton's all without sounding etched or hard in the least... And if anything, being hugely easier to drive means they sound even more relaxed and laid back to me. And satisfaction from low level listening is simply on a different level too. Of course people read "Klipsch" and make automatic assumptions based on what they've read or been told or maybe they have experience of the earlier "shouty" models of yesteryear... I was the same until I tried them for myself And I'm not doing that thing people do... Upgrade from something and then come back to tell other users the previous thing is crap and try to "evangelize" for the new thing... Not at all... Just because I found value there doesn't mean others will too. And the Linton's were a landmark speaker for me. They changed my priorities for what my ideal sound is, going forward. And I will always remain positive about them. If it didn't sound so corny I'd say they have a "special place in my heart" But Wharfedale isn't the only game in town. If you seek it out you might find there are other sources of "that sound" without having to pay five times more for a Linton 2.0.
They are big cabinets to the extent they won't fit well in small to medium rooms. Their main advantage is they have incredibly low bass compared to most even expensive floor standers. They struck me as smooth but not particularly exciting, though better music and partnering equipment might change that. On the same day I heard better sound from cheaper speakers which looked more expensive in relation to price as well. Won't do bass as well however due to smaller drivers or cabinet. Indeed the drivers appear the same Chinese made ones in the Linton or based on the same. The extra cost is a large very dead cabinet and more complex crossovers. I can't see how they can call it all British made as appears to be the case with Mission 770. If there is any large jump in cost it's the cabinets but they don't look a lot better than Linton except for the veneered baffle. I had a good close up look at them, tapped the cabinets etc. They are nice enough made but just miss out on that luxury look and feel other speakers in that price range have.
TONEH said: “But Wharfedale isn't the only game in town. If you seek it out you might find there are other sources of "that sound" without having to pay five times more for a Linton 2.0.” hopefully, the 3x more expensive Mission 770s will be the answer for me….i’m awaiting delivery today, though UPS is pushing the time limit to near dark. Wouldn’t be surprised if they haul back to the warehouse so they can beat the F**k out of them for 2 more days before i get my hands on them.
just hooked them up…BTW, they shorted me one stand puck. These are brand new, but gotta say, first listen is underwhelming, certainly not 3x better than the Lintons. First off, they are less efficient, have to crank the volume dial higher. Secondly, the cabinets are more inert but not dramatically so. They have the same hollow sound when you give them the knuckle test. Seriously, I’m losing my trust in audio reviewers- they are simply salesmen. So far, the sound is nice, not offensive, rather polite. Only been listening to various tunes for 45 minutes, but i did NOT get that wow moment when i first turned them on and haven’t had a big smile on my face yet. Will give them some time…i need a drink.
Well that's disappointing. Sorry to hear that your first impression hasn't been overwhelmingly positive. They were never going to be 3x better than the Linton's anyway right? Just not how this game works. And of course things could change as they settle in over the next little while. Also - could be a case of a component that isn't necessarily lovable at first but earns your regard over time? I wasn't going to bring that up when you first mentioned you had these on order... I don't go out of my way to discourage or annoy people and of course we had that fuss before with the Linton's and amp power discussion. Both Stereophile and HiFi News measured their review samples of the 770's and both concluded that they're are a good 2-3dB less sensitive than the Linton's. So what you're finding in practice is consistent with that. That's probably the key thing for now. Let 'em play... do their thing. Might still come to grow on you?
oh, i was aware their sensitivity is slightly lower than the Lintons, although their impedance is higher. That’s a minor quibble. Don’t take me literally, I wasn’t expecting 3x greater sound improvement, but i was looking for that sonic moment where you sit back and say yes ! this is the sound i’ve been looking for, where it all falls into place and you know they are keepers to enjoy for many years. It could be system matching, could be my room, but i’m hearing a very mellow presentation. Sounds accurate, fairly quick and detailed. Like the Lintons, not bass heavy in my room.
I've owned the Cornwall IV and auditioned the Forte III in my home. Horn loaded speakers don't agree with me, but I may be more sensitive to the sound. The scale was great, but the beaming and harshness would come through. Couldn't get them to disappear either. None of that with the Linton, which seem to solve all of the issues that distract from enjoyment.
